Pirates !

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richie43
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Re: Pirates !

Post by richie43 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 pm

jeffbdavis wrote:FWIW, I just read this article about piracy posted on Lifehacker and thought it hit the mark pretty well: http://lifehacker.com/5990525/why-i-sto ... -for-media

Essentially, the idea is that people take the road of least resistance. If the experience of paying for your software is easier/less-expensive/less-risky, then that's the greatest disincentive for piracy. Low prices, demo versions, good customer support all lead to that... copy protection schemes, not so much IMO.
I did see that article before, and it is indeed well written and brings up some good points. But that path of least resistance comes at many levels, and I still see it as a case that if the free product is available at all, especially with little consequence, that IS the least resistant path, even if there is no copy protection, no demos, and simple check-out process when purchasing. It already is simpler to buy something than deal with the crack-ware paths (wait times, captcha's, possible viruses, etc) and people still use them IF it is offered. I do understand the unpleasantness of copy protection, but many devs are just beginning to face the decision between basically turning their head at piracy or using some form of copy protection. As I keep saying, I think it sucks too, I am not a fan of copy protection as a user, but I do support the decisions of the devs, especially if they are either going to either implement copy protection or stop making software. I'd still buy from Alex, Henry, Michael, Cupwise (There are more, of course!) even if they start using copy protection. AITB has done a great job with theirs, I think. And Henry has his own trickery going on, lol. I say let the devs do what they feel they need to do to stay in business.
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Re: Pirates !

Post by dwagrimm » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:23 pm

Hi Alex,

to read your last post is´nt funny. my opinion about cp is still the same but I´ve changed my view after your post. I´m very happy to have developers like you and I hope I can buy some more stuff of you (and the other developers too) in the future. you loose so much? that´s more then "not funny". go ahead with your cp. you have my support. but please no ilok. thanks in respect.

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Re: Pirates !

Post by Definity » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:08 pm

This might be over board but how about polymorphic encryption for a system ID and for that ID only.

I start a degree in Software Engineering in September If this thing is still going on in a few years then I will definitely start to think of how to go about protecting developers.

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Re: Pirates !

Post by jeffbdavis » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:44 am

richie43 wrote: I did see that article before, and it is indeed well written and brings up some good points. But that path of least resistance comes at many levels, and I still see it as a case that if the free product is available at all, especially with little consequence, that IS the least resistant path, even if there is no copy protection, no demos, and simple check-out process when purchasing. It already is simpler to buy something than deal with the crack-ware paths (wait times, captcha's, possible viruses, etc) and people still use them IF it is offered. I do understand the unpleasantness of copy protection, but many devs are just beginning to face the decision between basically turning their head at piracy or using some form of copy protection. As I keep saying, I think it sucks too, I am not a fan of copy protection as a user, but I do support the decisions of the devs, especially if they are either going to either implement copy protection or stop making software. I'd still buy from Alex, Henry, Michael, Cupwise (There are more, of course!) even if they start using copy protection. AITB has done a great job with theirs, I think. And Henry has his own trickery going on, lol. I say let the devs do what they feel they need to do to stay in business.
I agree with many of your points - the article just got me thinking about the issue from a slightly different perspective. Not entirely against CP, but moderation is the key, I guess. :)

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Re: Pirates !

Post by richie43 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:04 am

Definity wrote:This might be over board but how about polymorphic encryption for a system ID and for that ID only.

I start a degree in Software Engineering in September If this thing is still going on in a few years then I will definitely start to think of how to go about protecting developers.
This is what i was hoping for. Solutions from users to help the devs besides just as customers. More of that!
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Re: Pirates !

Post by AlexB » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:03 am

I have iLock (for regular VCC and some demos) and eLicenser (some VSTi, Cubase) and I haven't any issue with these kind of CP. So I don't see where the problem is.

Said that, CP on libraries sucks for me, and primarily for me and other devs I suppose, since it needs more work and re-work. So I would like to release new programs without it but we don't live in a perfect world...
For sure the ideal scenario is to have one unique kind of CP for all 3rd party but it seems that every ones choose individually.

Personally I have two possibility only:
1 - CP. Manual serial exchange like experimented two years ago.
2 - stop making libraries.

Don't tell me the fable about low price, demos and great customers support is the solution. All these things already exist from the beginning and the result it's on the warez sites.

I apologize if I seem a little ethically disappointed by this whole history... :|
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Re: Pirates !

Post by david1103 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:35 am

I am really sorry to hear you are feeling so down about this Alex. You have many fans here who all love what you have done!

You have a massive body of work that has a lot of value, I am sure there is a solution for you to continue to get the money you deserve. All is not lost, try to keep positive!

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Re: Pirates !

Post by richie43 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:22 am

AlexB wrote:I have iLock (for regular VCC and some demos) and eLicenser (some VSTi, Cubase) and I haven't any issue with these kind of CP. So I don't see where the problem is.

Said that, CP on libraries sucks for me, and primarily for me and other devs I suppose, since it needs more work and re-work. So I would like to release new programs without it but we don't live in a perfect world...
For sure the ideal scenario is to have one unique kind of CP for all 3rd party but it seems that every ones choose individually.

Personally I have two possibility only:
1 - CP. Manual serial exchange like experimented two years ago.
2 - stop making libraries.

Don't tell me the fable about low price, demos and great customers support is the solution. All these things already exist from the beginning and the result it's on the warez sites.

I apologize if I seem a little ethically disappointed by this whole history... :|
Alex, I do understand your feelings, as I have had music of mine used for profit under someone else's name, and that is theft that is similar to the piracy we are talking about. And as I have already said, I don't like the idea of any CP, but I like that much better than you not making them anymore. I personally don't "do" iloks, so for my own selfish reasons, I hope that ilok is not your choice. If so, I support your decision but will still not buy into ilok.... but I digress. I do think that all of the devs need to do whatever they think they need to do to stay in business. A little CP, slightly higher prices, Henry's idea of customized libraries..... whatever.
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Re: Pirates !

Post by jeffbdavis » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:15 am

AlexB wrote:Don't tell me the fable about low price, demos and great customers support is the solution. All these things already exist from the beginning and the result it's on the warez sites.

I apologize if I seem a little ethically disappointed by this whole history... :|
I can understand your feelings, but (respectfully) I don't think the answer is in elaborate copy protection or higher prices, etc. I don't do iLok... however, a serial doesn't sound unreasonable.

Anyway, I hope you can see it from the end user's point of view. Believe it or not reasonable pricing, demo programs and the idea of being above board and supporting great devs like yourself DO factor into people's buying decisions - I'm personally an example of this. :D

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Re: Pirates !

Post by Melon_Jack » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:28 am

I think it'a matter of respect to peoples, who make this gorgeous plugin and libraries for such a little cost. It's a shame to stealing it. If u doing this - u are loser. Even a student can spend 50euros or even 150, for things u like, which helps u make your music sound more "live" and breathin.) That's why i buyed nebula and planing to purchase some great libs, which i testing now)
Sorry for my bad english =))

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Re: Pirates !

Post by Definity » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:44 pm

Melon_Jack wrote:I think it'a matter of respect to peoples, who make this gorgeous plugin and libraries for such a little cost. It's a shame to stealing it. If u doing this - u are loser. Even a student can spend 50euros or even 150, for things u like, which helps u make your music sound more "live" and breathin.) That's why i buyed nebula and planing to purchase some great libs, which i testing now)
^^^^

My point exactly, what kind of tramp cant afford 25 euros for a whole console???

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Re: Pirates !

Post by Melon_Jack » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Dunno =) If u plan to make money on your music and mixing-mastering - it's not a problem at all, i suppose. Same goes for Reaper. Which DAW (so flexible and user-friendly) costs 60 bucks? No one!) Which plugin can make closest than anything "analog sound" for 189EUR and so (mmm, OK, +400USD for libraries, which u can purchase one-by-one), depending on your taste and needs? Waves with his harsh, dirty squashed, muddy sound for 500+USD? Nope, thanks. No one, but Nebula =)

We must admit, what Nebula is unique product for REEEAAAALLLY fair price, which need our support to progress, make updates, make new great libraries and, so on, make our music-sound life much sweet and easier =) Even if i work on console and real analog hardware, i cannot live without nebula past two years, and i want to Nebula lives. That's why i've buyed it. Besides, it really has potential)

So Alex, i'm on my way to choose one of consoles (so difficult to decide =___=) and give you my money with pleasure =))))

P.S. And sorry for my poor english.)
Last edited by Melon_Jack on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for my bad english =))

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Re: Pirates !

Post by djomardiaz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:25 pm

And Acustica Audio´s people do not plan to implement some kind of CP???, without devs, nebula is nothing....
Paz hermanos.....

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Re: Pirates !

Post by koda » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:03 pm

There is already a challange/response CP available.
The one used by Nebula itself and AITB programs.

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Re: Pirates !

Post by djomardiaz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:18 pm

I know it, i got 5 libraries from AITB but, why the rest of devs dont do the same or for example, why dont do like CDSoundmaster guys,with the acqua engine, libraries inside a vst plugin with that CP,its a lot of more work i know it but, much more difficult to crack it.
Henry for example, do this one for is orphanage but i guess that the rest of devs should do something like that,but i imagine that its not easy. :?
Paz hermanos.....

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