OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

[giancarlo]

Thank you!

[Brian]

Lemon is excellent for giving soft synths and samples their own space just as a color processor too...100% wet, no delay (or have some offset LR delay for width), dial in character to taste.

[chrisarvan]

This is really amazing guys. It's like you don't know what you've been missing until you've heard it. Then it's obvious.

[giancarlo]

Exactly... Price is very good now, tell your friends!
Thank you for your support

[DarkandKurious]

Firstly Giancarlo, AA and everyone who was part of the creative process; this is an absolute monster. There are so many tonal options, and so much flexibility. It will take a long time for me to know all the units and their sweet spots, but who in their right mind would buy 40 units and try to know them all in a day? This is an amazing bit of gear and does deserve the title "dreamware" because it literally can't exist in the physical world.

I've come across a few anomalies though, and I'm not sure if they are bugs or intentional design. Some of the banks are out of phase when they have no delay and are used as a tone shaper (A3, A4, B1, B2, B9, C3, D4, D5 and D6). B1 and B2 are interesting, because they have similar, comparable devices: B1 is the opposite phase of C1, B2 is the opposite phase of C0.

If we use A3 (for example) as a tone shaper and set a mix around 68% with all the other settings factory, we get massive phase cancellation, or with B2 around 50%, C3 (which is a digital device) around 70% etc. As you change the blend you can hear the units go through their closest null, depending on the changes to the frequency curve. This makes some of the units difficult to use without routing out to a send and reversing the phase to blend with the original.

The difficulty with this is that with 40 units, it is hard to know what the phase response will be on any given unit without doing a test. If I have a unit that I am using as an insert and I decide to try the cassette, I have to set up a bus to try it as a tonal blend.

However, if the device sampled delivered the delay/response out of phase, then the sample is correct. It should have the phase profile that the unit has to be correct, that will be part of its flavour, and as engineers we choose that particular unit because of how it works with the original sound. If the phase response is changed, the intended feeling of the delay is also changed.

If this is the way the units were sampled, would it be possible to implement a simple 180 polarity switch on each tap? That would allow even more tonal possibilities while preserving the character of each delay as it was sampled.

Again, congratulations because this is an amazing product, and I am astounded by it, I am like a kid in a candy store!

[giancarlo]

ok, a clarification about phase in those units, maybe we should add a section in the user manual since an other betatester raised more or less the same concerns

1) we are keeping the original phase of the devices.
There is a reason for that: several ones are BASED on negative feedback chain. In old times it was a trick for getting a sweet delay, because it subracts instead of summing. In this exact case the whole "wet" processing is phase reversed.

2) we are tempted to correct automatically phase, in nebula it is a tag (we introduced it around 10 years ago when we started sampling tapes). The idea was about allowing to reverse phase with a negative control. Problem is that our "negative feedback" is more a ping-pong negative feedback, so it goes with phase in alternate fashion (I think it was explained in the user manual), so you cannot simulate the original behaviour of the gear any more. We preferred this behaviour for a reason of symmetry with stereo version, based on ping pong. For this exact reason we preferred to keep the original phase used in the feedback path.

Anyway if you want to mitigate the phase cancellation just go negative, and one feedback each two will be reversed. We tested presets like they are and we liked the original behaviour and we preferred to not fix it. Since you have many ones, I'm sure you'll find what is more suitable to you.

Said that, depending on other constraints we'll evaluate an inversion of polarity feature in stereo version, but I'm not sure there is enough space left on the screen. Basically it's a "no", but there is a little space left for this decision, depending on our time. In the worst case we'll evaluate it for Lemon2.

[DarkandKurious]

Thanks for the clarification G, I thought it might be that case. B1 in particular is so delightfully weird and wonderful that it really doesn't matter which phase it has, and I can work around the cassette option if I need to. A word of explanation in the manual will help I think.

I personally love the concept of the ping pong phase. It is creating so much great movement.

Lemon is a mammoth achievement, especially core 11. I have been using phase cancellation to clearly hear the details of the saturation so I can get used to the different characters quickly. What you have achieved with the saturation is truly astounding. The sheer amount of love put into the plugin is amazing.

[giancarlo]

ok meanwhile marco achieved to find a space in the gui, so we added the phase flip ONLY in the incoming stereo version, and this skin only
Better than nothing.

[DarkandKurious]

Wow you guys are fast! That gives so many options so simply - thank you!

[jus11]

New Au installers, trial and commercial version (release A) , are available for the download.
These installers solve the clash of magic numbers.

Thanks, that was quick. Works now as expected.

[lubomba]

guys, sorry, but we NEED overdriven preamps NOW with the new tech!!! I'm serious!!

[focusrite]

guys, sorry, but we NEED overdriven preamps NOW with the new tech!!! I'm serious!!

Have you tried any of your preamps with 2 gain plugs yet?

[DavideBurattin]

ok meanwhile marco achieved to find a space in the gui, so we added the phase flip ONLY in the incoming stereo version, and this skin only
Better than nothing.

WhatsApp Image 2017-10-12 at 11.07.54.jpeg

Giancarlo, I'm just wondering if this stereo version will be, generally, less CPU intensive than the multitap version?

BTW this plugin is truly amazing! Knowing the technology I cannot imagine the amount of work done under the cover!!!!
I was planning to stop, until the 2018, any plugin-related purchase since DIAMOND and GOLD, but you are a true "pusher" to offer this new unexpected gem!
Cheers.

[giancarlo]

A little bit less, yes

[lubomba]

Have you tried any of your preamps with 2 gain plugs yet?[/quote]


Have you heard like some of the models in Lemon break up when driven hard? None of my AA preamps break up like this...