OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Share your experience, tips & tricks, show off your music.
Post Reply
User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
Posts: 11215
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:56 am

Thank you!

Brian
Vip Member
Vip Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Taipei, Taiwan / San Francisco, CA

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Brian » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:49 am

Lemon is excellent for giving soft synths and samples their own space just as a color processor too...100% wet, no delay (or have some offset LR delay for width), dial in character to taste.
Official dealer of Acustica Audio products in Taiwan.
Acustica Audio台灣授權經銷商
[email protected]

Mixing/Mastering Engineer at Sentient Sound Labs 覺知音樂工作室

Win10 x64 | Reaper5 | PT12 | Ableton Live 9

User avatar
chrisarvan
User Level VI
User Level VI
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:26 am

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by chrisarvan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:32 am

This is really amazing guys. It's like you don't know what you've been missing until you've heard it. Then it's obvious.

User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
Posts: 11215
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 am

Exactly... Price is very good now, tell your friends!
Thank you for your support

DarkandKurious
User Level X
User Level X
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by DarkandKurious » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:40 am

Firstly Giancarlo, AA and everyone who was part of the creative process; this is an absolute monster. There are so many tonal options, and so much flexibility. It will take a long time for me to know all the units and their sweet spots, but who in their right mind would buy 40 units and try to know them all in a day? This is an amazing bit of gear and does deserve the title "dreamware" because it literally can't exist in the physical world.

I've come across a few anomalies though, and I'm not sure if they are bugs or intentional design. Some of the banks are out of phase when they have no delay and are used as a tone shaper (A3, A4, B1, B2, B9, C3, D4, D5 and D6). B1 and B2 are interesting, because they have similar, comparable devices: B1 is the opposite phase of C1, B2 is the opposite phase of C0.

If we use A3 (for example) as a tone shaper and set a mix around 68% with all the other settings factory, we get massive phase cancellation, or with B2 around 50%, C3 (which is a digital device) around 70% etc. As you change the blend you can hear the units go through their closest null, depending on the changes to the frequency curve. This makes some of the units difficult to use without routing out to a send and reversing the phase to blend with the original.

The difficulty with this is that with 40 units, it is hard to know what the phase response will be on any given unit without doing a test. If I have a unit that I am using as an insert and I decide to try the cassette, I have to set up a bus to try it as a tonal blend.

However, if the device sampled delivered the delay/response out of phase, then the sample is correct. It should have the phase profile that the unit has to be correct, that will be part of its flavour, and as engineers we choose that particular unit because of how it works with the original sound. If the phase response is changed, the intended feeling of the delay is also changed.

If this is the way the units were sampled, would it be possible to implement a simple 180 polarity switch on each tap? That would allow even more tonal possibilities while preserving the character of each delay as it was sampled.

Again, congratulations because this is an amazing product, and I am astounded by it, I am like a kid in a candy store! :ugeek:
macOS Sierra, ProTools 12.8
Navy, Purple, Pink 2412/7236, Ultramarine, Coral, Lime, Pearl, Diamond, Gold, Cobalt, Ebony

User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
Posts: 11215
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 am

ok, a clarification about phase in those units, maybe we should add a section in the user manual since an other betatester raised more or less the same concerns

1) we are keeping the original phase of the devices.
There is a reason for that: several ones are BASED on negative feedback chain. In old times it was a trick for getting a sweet delay, because it subracts instead of summing. In this exact case the whole "wet" processing is phase reversed.

2) we are tempted to correct automatically phase, in nebula it is a tag (we introduced it around 10 years ago when we started sampling tapes). The idea was about allowing to reverse phase with a negative control. Problem is that our "negative feedback" is more a ping-pong negative feedback, so it goes with phase in alternate fashion (I think it was explained in the user manual), so you cannot simulate the original behaviour of the gear any more. We preferred this behaviour for a reason of symmetry with stereo version, based on ping pong. For this exact reason we preferred to keep the original phase used in the feedback path.

Anyway if you want to mitigate the phase cancellation just go negative, and one feedback each two will be reversed. We tested presets like they are and we liked the original behaviour and we preferred to not fix it. Since you have many ones, I'm sure you'll find what is more suitable to you.

Said that, depending on other constraints we'll evaluate an inversion of polarity feature in stereo version, but I'm not sure there is enough space left on the screen. Basically it's a "no", but there is a little space left for this decision, depending on our time. In the worst case we'll evaluate it for Lemon2.

DarkandKurious
User Level X
User Level X
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by DarkandKurious » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:23 am

Thanks for the clarification G, I thought it might be that case. B1 in particular is so delightfully weird and wonderful that it really doesn't matter which phase it has, and I can work around the cassette option if I need to. A word of explanation in the manual will help I think.

I personally love the concept of the ping pong phase. It is creating so much great movement.

Lemon is a mammoth achievement, especially core 11. I have been using phase cancellation to clearly hear the details of the saturation so I can get used to the different characters quickly. What you have achieved with the saturation is truly astounding. The sheer amount of love put into the plugin is amazing.
macOS Sierra, ProTools 12.8
Navy, Purple, Pink 2412/7236, Ultramarine, Coral, Lime, Pearl, Diamond, Gold, Cobalt, Ebony

User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
Posts: 11215
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:29 am

ok meanwhile marco achieved to find a space in the gui, so we added the phase flip ONLY in the incoming stereo version, and this skin only
Better than nothing.


WhatsApp Image 2017-10-12 at 11.07.54.jpeg

DarkandKurious
User Level X
User Level X
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by DarkandKurious » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:45 am

Wow you guys are fast! That gives so many options so simply - thank you!
macOS Sierra, ProTools 12.8
Navy, Purple, Pink 2412/7236, Ultramarine, Coral, Lime, Pearl, Diamond, Gold, Cobalt, Ebony

jus11
User Level X
User Level X
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:31 am

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by jus11 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm

Francesco.Tedeschi wrote:New Au installers, trial and commercial version (release A) , are available for the download.
These installers solve the clash of magic numbers.
Thanks, that was quick. Works now as expected.

lubomba
Member
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 pm

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by lubomba » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:56 pm

guys, sorry, but we NEED overdriven preamps NOW with the new tech!!! I'm serious!! :ugeek:

focusrite
User Level II
User Level II
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:53 pm

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by focusrite » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:01 pm

lubomba wrote:guys, sorry, but we NEED overdriven preamps NOW with the new tech!!! I'm serious!! :ugeek:
Have you tried any of your preamps with 2 gain plugs yet?

User avatar
DavideBurattin
User Level X
User Level X
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:36 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by DavideBurattin » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:54 pm

giancarlo wrote:ok meanwhile marco achieved to find a space in the gui, so we added the phase flip ONLY in the incoming stereo version, and this skin only
Better than nothing.


WhatsApp Image 2017-10-12 at 11.07.54.jpeg
Giancarlo, I'm just wondering if this stereo version will be, generally, less CPU intensive than the multitap version?

BTW this plugin is truly amazing! Knowing the technology I cannot imagine the amount of work done under the cover!!!!
I was planning to stop, until the 2018, any plugin-related purchase since DIAMOND and GOLD, but you are a true "pusher" to offer this new unexpected gem! :lol:
Cheers.

User avatar
giancarlo
Founder
Founder
Posts: 11215
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Italy

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:22 pm

A little bit less, yes

lubomba
Member
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 pm

Re: OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by lubomba » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:26 pm

Have you tried any of your preamps with 2 gain plugs yet?[/quote]


Have you heard like some of the models in Lemon break up when driven hard? None of my AA preamps break up like this...

Post Reply