SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

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SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Sun May 14, 2017 8:08 pm

Hi all!

I am experiencing problems with Sand (Fab4). I try to use it in Cubase 9.0.20 on a Hackintosh (i7 4770K @4.2GHz, 32GB RAM) as my virtual S*L console. In order to achieve that I already use Vienna Ensemble Pro 6 on another PC and run my busses there to take off some strain of my main machine.
The problem is this: After inserting the 17th instance of SANDEQ4 the plugin window opens, but Cubase freezes immediately - no lights on the EQ, no chance to close the EQ windows, no reaction to playback start/stop etc. The VST meter is at about 50% at this time - so I suspect it isn't a CPU problem. While in the current project this is a 100% repeatable problem, I can't say for sure that it always happens with the 17th instance in every project. What I can say, though, is that it happens in every project at a certain amount of SANDEQ4 instances. The SANDPRE4 doesn't seem to have this problem. (?)
I tried it with Asio Guard off and on at different settings - without a change in crash behavior.

Any suggestions what I might try to solve this problem? Since I am using Vienna Ensemble Pro for the busses and Send-Effects I guess it would be possible to set up a complete S*L in the box without the need to freeze or render anything. But with these crashes happening all the time it's a bit frustrating.

Thanks upfront for your time,
Markus

P.S.: Also posted this in the FB Acustica Audiophiles group.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Sun May 14, 2017 8:32 pm

Ok, a short update: It does also crash when inserting to much SandPre4 instances.

For the current project the crash happens after inserting the 41th instance of Sand - either Pre or EQ.

In detail the project has 24 SandPre4, 16 SandEQ4 inserted. When inserting either three more Pres (27 total SandPre4) or the 17th EQ it crashes.

Furthermore, Cubase also crashes when the plugins are turned off, i.e. without any noticeable VST meter reading. Even if switched off Sand instances are copied across the channels. So I suspect that it must be some problem under the hood of Sand.

I also tested it without using VEP6 - same problems.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by DavideBurattin » Sun May 14, 2017 11:17 pm

It's an already discussed problem of Steinberg Cubase.
A solution is to use JBridge for the AA plugins, even if you use a 64bit host you can wrap the already 64bit plugins.

Or change DAW and use Reaper that is way more optimized.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by DavideBurattin » Mon May 15, 2017 1:27 am


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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Mon May 15, 2017 8:27 am

DavideBurattin wrote:It's an already discussed problem of Steinberg Cubase.
A solution is to use JBridge for the AA plugins, even if you use a 64bit host you can wrap the already 64bit plugins.

Or change DAW and use Reaper that is way more optimized.
Thanks David.
I actually tried JBridge yesterday after I found the thread that you're linking to. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. When using JBridge Cubase crashes immediately when opening the project I am talking about. So no option here. Changing DAW is also not an option as I am a Cubase user for 13 years now and know every move by heart.

However, Giancarlo answered in the fb group and told me that the problem most likely comes from an AA-internal memory restriction for protection purposes.

Here's his reply:
Giancarlo Del Sordo on facebook wrote:Someone reported it, it should be linked with our protection or even physical memory fragmentation. Unfortunately we were not able to replicate it. We'll release an engine featuring less restrictions on memory initialization (plugin tests memory at startup allocating large memory quantities, but I don't think this is related)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7039274 ... 5543828830

So as I am understanding it, it might not even be a Cubase problem. As I said, VST meter tells me that only 50% of "VST-power" is used when the crashes happen. So it doesn't seem to be an efficiency problem here.

Best,
Markus
Last edited by orthogonalrecords on Mon May 15, 2017 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by Support » Mon May 15, 2017 10:45 am

Update manually Acqua Engine first.
Best regards,
Enrique Silveti.
Acustica Audio customer and technical support
http://www.acustica-audio.com

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Mon May 15, 2017 10:49 am

Support wrote:Update manually Acqua Engine first.
Ok, thanks.
Could you please point me to a description on how to do that? :)

Best,
Markus

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by DavideBurattin » Mon May 15, 2017 3:45 pm

Interesting, thanks for the updates.
i'm also curious about the manual update procedure.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Mon May 15, 2017 4:36 pm

I meanwhile found on another thread here in the forums, that for Windows renaming and copying .dll/.vst files of a recent plugin will update the engine.
Is that correct for Mac too?
And does it work with trial plugins?

So, let's say I download Amethyst3, install it and rename the files to Sands filenames would that do the trick and upgrade Sand to core x?

Of course I'm gonna backup before, but just to be sure it will work.

Furthermore, how can I check if the update worked?

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Mon May 15, 2017 4:57 pm

Ok, seems I overread the info for Mac - it's here: http://www.acustica-audio.com/phpBB3/vi ... 10#p115437

Copying and renaming the files (vst-2 archives) from a recent trial version works, according to the post linked aboved.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Mon May 15, 2017 9:54 pm

Hi all!

I manually updated the engine now by downloading Amethyst 3 and duplicating + renaming the .vst files.
No issues with updating and SAND works like a charm now. I was able to load a pre and an EQ into every track of the project, i.e. 16 more instances (8pre + 8EQ) - will also test how much Comps will be possible when mixing the song.

I am very happy now - thank you very much for your advice and help, Enrique.

Best,
Markus

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by Support » Tue May 16, 2017 12:04 pm

orthogonalrecords wrote:Hi all!

I manually updated the engine now by downloading Amethyst 3 and duplicating + renaming the .vst files.
No issues with updating and SAND works like a charm now. I was able to load a pre and an EQ into every track of the project, i.e. 16 more instances (8pre + 8EQ) - will also test how much Comps will be possible when mixing the song.

I am very happy now - thank you very much for your advice and help, Enrique.

Best,
Markus
You are using 1.4.169, we are using 1.4.170 (cobalt dynamic eq core x). For engine update for other formats is more complex, and you should open a support ticket.

If you are a registered client of Acustica Audio and you need support, please contact us via a support ticket from your account dashboard.
For submit a support ticket, first log-in into your user account, and go Customer Area, Dashboard, Get Support and submit a support ticket.
Best regards,
Enrique Silveti.
Acustica Audio customer and technical support
http://www.acustica-audio.com

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by cjperez » Tue May 16, 2017 9:48 pm

orthogonalrecords wrote:Hi all!

I manually updated the engine now by downloading Amethyst 3 and duplicating + renaming the .vst files.
No issues with updating and SAND works like a charm now. I was able to load a pre and an EQ into every track of the project, i.e. 16 more instances (8pre + 8EQ) - will also test how much Comps will be possible when mixing the song.

I am very happy now - thank you very much for your advice and help, Enrique.

Best,
Markus
Interesting.. My problem with SAND is apart from not being able to load too many instances of it, ( i have a beefy machine), sometimes if a project is heavy handed with Slate plugins, after saving the project, i would be unable to Load the project afterwards... Cubase would just crash and i wouldn't be able to get into the file at all.

So would this method work with ameythist 3 trial??... Cause i downloaded the trial version and have it installed..... Can i just rename the Trial version files to the SAND files? Cause i really need to have SAND working properply.. And i did submit a ticket but got no response from support for a week then realized that the ticket was closed afterwards.
Intel Core i7 5820k 3.3ghz. 32gigs Ram, Samsung SSD, MSI X99A motherboard, Cubase 8, H******* Mixbus 3.3 & 2.5, Antelope Audio Zen Studio & Yamaha N8 Mixers. Win. 7 64 bit.

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by orthogonalrecords » Wed May 17, 2017 12:52 pm

cjperez wrote:So would this method work with ameythist 3 trial??... Cause i downloaded the trial version and have it installed..... Can i just rename the Trial version files to the SAND files? Cause i really need to have SAND working properply.. And i did submit a ticket but got no response from support for a week then realized that the ticket was closed afterwards.
Hi!

Yes, it would work.
However, I would recommend to contact support again and ask for a link to the official engine upload files. You have the latest engine 1.4.170 there together with a description on how to upgrade.

I upgraded to 1.4.170 yesterday and it works even a little better as it seems. Now I can additionally load another 30 instances of SandBus (with insane deactivated) without Cubase crashing.

I would definitely give it a try.

Best,
Markus

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Re: SandFAB4 crashes Cubase 9 after certain # of instances!

Post by cjperez » Sat May 20, 2017 1:04 am

orthogonalrecords wrote:
cjperez wrote:So would this method work with ameythist 3 trial??... Cause i downloaded the trial version and have it installed..... Can i just rename the Trial version files to the SAND files? Cause i really need to have SAND working properply.. And i did submit a ticket but got no response from support for a week then realized that the ticket was closed afterwards.
Hi!

Yes, it would work.
However, I would recommend to contact support again and ask for a link to the official engine upload files. You have the latest engine 1.4.170 there together with a description on how to upgrade.

I upgraded to 1.4.170 yesterday and it works even a little better as it seems. Now I can additionally load another 30 instances of SandBus (with insane deactivated) without Cubase crashing.

I would definitely give it a try.

Best,
Markus
ok..Also, I am able to reproduce consistently a bug with SAND that crashes Cubase 9 and 8x64 bit as well.

1. Create a Track in CUbase,
2. Put the SAND channel strip/or any of the FAB4 plugins on the track
3. Put Slate Digital's VCC or VTM in the same track,
4. Save the Cubase project file
5. Exit Cubase then Reload Cubase then Reload the saved project file
6. CUBASE CRASHES every time. In other words, the Project file WILL NOT LOAD..

on my system at least, SAND does not seem to like Slate Plugins on the same track or even in the same Project...

The end result is Cubase not being able to re-load the saved project file after exiting cubase.. Weird....

My System:
1: i7 5820k overclocked to 4.0ghz
2: MSI x99 Motherboard
3: 32 gigs Gskill Ram
4: SSD hard drives
5: Cubase 8.035x64bit & Cubase 9
6: Antelope Audio Zen Studio (Audio Interface)
7: Windows 7 x64bit

ps: i sent this to support as well, but I keep getting a SMTP error when i send a ticket... It somewhat shows that the ticket did went through but i keep getting that SMPT error in RED... I have no idea what that means though.
Intel Core i7 5820k 3.3ghz. 32gigs Ram, Samsung SSD, MSI X99A motherboard, Cubase 8, H******* Mixbus 3.3 & 2.5, Antelope Audio Zen Studio & Yamaha N8 Mixers. Win. 7 64 bit.

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