SAND out now!

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Pro5
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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Pro5 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:49 am

giancarlo wrote:Lol.
I understand, but we decided for the other appearance because there is more cohesion among fab4 products.
Maybe include both skins for those that prefer nice/tidy looking plug-ins that are a joy to look at/work with by themselves than any high concept of 'cohesion' between sub-plugs which doesn't matter at all in reality/working with it (only from a marketing/branding POV) Besides, the white EQ still def looks like part of the 'set' and feels like the main part so white, imo, seems ok there, perhaps if you hadn't gone with that muddy red background it wouldn't have been so bad, reminds me of that horrible burgundy 'preset' box that I.K still love to put on their ugly looking plug-ins. :mrgreen: I'd pay 5 euros more if I could get the EQ as it looked in the early render ;) (this from the guy who was one of the first to kick up a fuss about wanting/needing the bus comp etc as separates and was told no and, well maybe I have a knack for knowing what people like lol). If you can't change it maybe you could just look at the shade of red you are using and try a more attractive constrasting colour (the pre and esp bus look fine, great even, the blue is very nice)

Though with the eq I think it's also the amount of different panels going on (not static or tidy like pre/bus) but each eq/filter having it's own 'bordered' area tends to look busy with that dark colour background (and the EQb with a dark red against a different dark red is particularly upsetting to my delicate nature ;) ) - maybe have the entire eq/filter section white with just the red around the edges/rack ears (like bus/pre) then use the main sand/early EQU render style white/grey panels for the eq?). Sorry for being annoying, I know it's your baby not mine but daaaamn, you were so close to making this another stunning looking set of plugs and I think you may have over-thought it or rushed the EQ's design due to the quick addition of fab 4 :(

Also the two "hex bolts" on the right hand side of the EQ look like they are at the wrong angle or something? looks weird. Be great if you ever get time to go over those renders again and tidy it all up a bit like the other two fab 4 plugs.


Image

mmmmmm! me likey!

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:08 am

no, we decided it after a long brianstorming.
The only white product will be "sand".

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by kingslanemusic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:59 am

Ok, been using only one instance of Sand compressor on the 2bus on a live
recording DVD/Blueray production for a major company - and it saved my
ass, putting everything "in place" so much easier than any other comp I know.

On a side note, I can see a tendency here and in other forums like " if you want to get the most out of Acustica plugins go PC"...

Well, I'm doing this for a living and I am on Mac/Logic since 1994, so
changing OS and DAW is NOT an option for me, not in this life...

I am sure I'm not alone and I would like to encourage Acustica audio to do their absolutely best to improve the inferior performance on Macs - whatever reason there is.

I want to use more Aqua plugins and I am willing to upgrade my computer for sure but that's about it.
I'd be thankful for hints regarding the most efficient model/cpu and maybe
a link to a forum where this is discussed.

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Support » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:05 pm

kingslanemusic wrote:Ok, been using only one instance of Sand compressor on the 2bus on a live
recording DVD/Blueray production for a major company - and it saved my
ass, putting everything "in place" so much easier than any other comp I know.

On a side note, I can see a tendency here and in other forums like " if you want to get the most out of Acustica plugins go PC"...

Well, I'm doing this for a living and I am on Mac/Logic since 1994, so
changing OS and DAW is NOT an option for me, not in this life...

I am sure I'm not alone and I would like to encourage Acustica audio to do their absolutely best to improve the inferior performance on Macs - whatever reason there is.

I want to use more Aqua plugins and I am willing to upgrade my computer for sure but that's about it.
I'd be thankful for hints regarding the most efficient model/cpu and maybe
a link to a forum where this is discussed.
Both operation system use the same CPU and computer architecture, we use the same optimization from Intel in both, but we use parallel computing thought multithread and threads should be synchronized by a CPU core before audio host processing, from our test not all audio host are optimized to work in this way, for a simple test run same session in Reaper 5 and Logic Pro X.
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Re: SAND out now!

Post by kingslanemusic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:32 pm

Thx, Enrique !
So you're basically saying Logic X ist the least efficient host although it
is owned by the OS developer itself ?

Are you in touch with Logic programmers ?
Is there a reason for this ?
To me Logic X is extremely stable and efficient with all other 3rd party
plugins except Acqua...
( I beliebe what you're reporting although I only partly understand technical things like "paralell computing" etc. )

Once again, I am so fast on Logic and know it inside out, not to mention the stability and usability of OS X, switching to another DAW would be a major workflow killer for me, simply impossible.

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:37 pm

normally we use mac osx. Things are more or less the same (the only difference is about basic primitives, for example on mac os x we use posix pthreads and events while in windows we use windows primitives). For what I can see the performance differences are a consequence of the os. OSX is way more bloated than windows, and while file system is faster, thread management is worse. Normally those things are not very visible because typically the applications belong to 2 categories
- gui and rendering thingy (and here performances are not affected)
- heavy calculation (and here performances are the same).

In embedded realtime applications you could spot differences, typically audio, and typically when the cpu load and the number of threads is big.
So it is ok if someone sticks with mac osx for professional applications, but for audio and multimedia they are worse systems (and no, even if mac osx is based on unix it is not like running things in linux or unix).

Said that, when we test acqua plugins both in windows and mac osx we get similar performances, for the exception of protools on mac (it is funny but protools on windows has the same performances of reaper if tuned properly). It is possible you get differences depending on hardware, drivers.... but here we open the same exact number of instances (our typical benchmark is executed on macbooks, latest generation, comparing mac osx and bootcamp).

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by poshook » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:37 pm

kingslanemusic wrote:Thx, Enrique !
So you're basically saying Logic X ist the least efficient host although it
is owned by the OS developer itself ?

Are you in touch with Logic programmers ?
Is there a reason for this ?
To me Logic X is extremely stable and efficient with all other 3rd party
plugins except Acqua...
( I beliebe what you're reporting although I only partly understand technical things like "paralell computing" etc. )

Once again, I am so fast on Logic and know it inside out, not to mention the stability and usability of OS X, switching to another DAW would be a major workflow killer for me, simply impossible.
Same here. AA are only plugins causing CPU spikes in Logic on my system (SAND included). But I must say that SAND EQ4 and BUS4 as separate plugins are extremely efficient in comparison to other AA products
Mac Pro 12-Core, OS X 10.2.3, 32GB RAM, GTX970, Apogee DUET FW, Logic Pro X 10.3.1, Trinity, Titanium, Pink, Red, Ochre, Orange, SAND, Gold

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:47 pm

kingslanemusic wrote:Thx, Enrique !
So you're basically saying Logic X ist the least efficient host although it
is owned by the OS developer itself ?

Are you in touch with Logic programmers ?
Is there a reason for this ?
To me Logic X is extremely stable and efficient with all other 3rd party
plugins except Acqua...
( I beliebe what you're reporting although I only partly understand technical things like "paralell computing" etc. )

Once again, I am so fast on Logic and know it inside out, not to mention the stability and usability of OS X, switching to another DAW would be a major workflow killer for me, simply impossible.

for heavy calculations yes. Basically we use the same wrapper used by all other developers. Inside it is based on the same vst plugin executed by reaper. There are differences between hosts, basically all hosts are using plugins in different ways.
Let's make an example: if every millisecond you ask for a getchunk (so you retrieve informations about plugins) it is possible a light plugin answer without using the cpu at all. In our case getchunk is a bit more complex because we are handling complex structures, tons of data, sample rate conversion and big buffers. Mutexes. So if let's say reaper asks the same things with less frequencies you get less spikes. So there is not something good or wrong on both sides.
Other example: when we move the frequency knob we reload things at runtime. Several hosts are not "moving" parameters, other ones are constantly refreshing things. It is not a big issue for a normal little plugin: normally when you move a knob you modify a constant, things like that. In your case it leads to spikes.
You can make further optimizations and this is a constant research. But I should add that the best solution is sometimes just a better system (cpu/ram). Just from gearslutz, there are users opening 340 sand pre4, at this point you do NOT have a spike during normal usage and at a normal number of instances. New systems handle those things very well. Apple is continuously deprecating operating systems, and hardware. They are linked.

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Avgatzeblouz » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Avgatzeblouz wrote:Hey guys, I'm having my VST folder organised my own way, and I would like to move SANDBUS4 to my "compressors" folder. Is there an XML tweak I should do ?
I did open a ticket, but no answer so far. Can someone help me out quickly ?
Samplitude Pro X3 suite - Sequoia 14 / Windows 10 pro x64 / Pearl / Titanium / N4 / Pink / Pink compressors / Prime Comp+Mix+Curve + Caribou comp + Black Eq + Black comp / Sand / Lime / Acquamarine / Emerald / Ultramarine / Silk / Gold / Cobalt / Ebony / Ivory / BlueEQ / Lemon / Magenta / Azure

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by kingslanemusic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:12 pm

thank you for taking the time to explain technical things like this -
although I do not understand all of it :D
As a producer / engineer I am just a user of your products...

I have no doubt that you make everything possible to get things stable
and efficient on every system.

Maybe it's time for a new and more powerful computer, but it has to be
a mac and Logic for me.

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by kingslanemusic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:18 pm

poshook wrote:
kingslanemusic wrote:Thx, Enrique !
So you're basically saying Logic X ist the least efficient host although it
is owned by the OS developer itself ?

Are you in touch with Logic programmers ?
Is there a reason for this ?
To me Logic X is extremely stable and efficient with all other 3rd party
plugins except Acqua...
( I beliebe what you're reporting although I only partly understand technical things like "paralell computing" etc. )

Once again, I am so fast on Logic and know it inside out, not to mention the stability and usability of OS X, switching to another DAW would be a major workflow killer for me, simply impossible.
Same here. AA are only plugins causing CPU spikes in Logic on my system (SAND included). But I must say that SAND EQ4 and BUS4 as separate plugins are extremely efficient in comparison to other AA products
I haven't had the time to try the separate plugins yet, good to know they're lighter on the cpu.

btw. I have had a lot less spikes with all AA products since setting Logics processing buffer to "high", a quite unusual setting, but it helped. ( I/o buffer set to highest possible value, too, of course - in my case 1024 samples )

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Yllet » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:16 pm

(Windows 10, Reaper 5.26 (64-bit)

My first impressions of SAND:

Awesome overall sound.
Great compression behaviour.
I love BUS4, maybe the best emulation I've heard.
EQs sounds great!

SAND strip is cool but cpu-heavy.
SAND strip bus comp controls reacted slowly/did not react at one point when flipped.
A couple of the preamps of PRE4 made a robotic/computerish/weird sound when fed (too?) hard. Same thing happened with Ultramarine 3 - anyone else experienced this?

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:32 pm

When you it happens you are in overflow, we made the effect obvious

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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Support » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:59 pm

Avgatzeblouz wrote:
Avgatzeblouz wrote:Hey guys, I'm having my VST folder organised my own way, and I would like to move SANDBUS4 to my "compressors" folder. Is there an XML tweak I should do ?
I did open a ticket, but no answer so far. Can someone help me out quickly ?
Which ticket code?
Best regards,
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https://www.acustica-audio.com/
Acustica Audio is a trademark of Acusticaudio SRL.

To contact Acustica Audio support go to the ‘Support’ in your Acustica Audio account.
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Re: SAND out now!

Post by Support » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:14 pm

So you're basically saying Logic X ist the least efficient host although it is owned by the OS developer itself?
If we are talking exclusively about thread synchronization, Logic Pro X in the our list of not efficient applications.
Are you in touch with Logic programmers?
Yes. We are certified Apple, Microsoft, Steinberg, Avid, PACE and JUCE developers.
Is there a reason for this?
They don't consider the time cost for code a better thread synchronization important. Will be a priority task soon as Logic customer request it or start complaining.
To me Logic X is extremely stable and efficient with all other 3rd party plugins except Acqua...
Measure how many threads create each 3rd party plug-in.
( I beliebe what you're reporting although I only partly understand technical things like "paralell computing" etc. )
Think in a similar concept as multiplexing extendedly used in digital audio domain and networking (no clock no fun).
Once again, I am so fast on Logic and know it inside out, not to mention the stability and usability of OS X, switching to another DAW would be a major workflow killer for me, simply impossible.
From our point of view, we don't want user change their audio host, but multi-thread is part of modern multi-core CPU architecture and you can't use their full potential due a lack of code.
Best regards,
Acustica Audio help-desk service and support.
https://www.acustica-audio.com/
Acustica Audio is a trademark of Acusticaudio SRL.

To contact Acustica Audio support go to the ‘Support’ in your Acustica Audio account.
We do not provide support via social networks, public forums, Acustica Audio forums, or email accounts.

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