Terrible Support

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giancarlo
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Re: Terrible Support

Post by giancarlo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:18 am

This is what I've have in mind
We'll change the model for sure, we can't be responsible for things we didn't create.
Libraries are applications, and like all applications they could be buggy.
Number of plugins and supported libraries is increasing exponentially, and very often we don't even test or receive them. They are crypted. We don't know what developers are doing without spending huge amount of time decrypting them and trying to understand an xml file of 100 kbytes for EACH preset

Problem here is not nebula 4 or nebula 3. Problem is that a new engine featuring new optimizations or bug fixes can't follow automatically this mess. When a new ios version for iPhone is released, each developer is releasing updates, not apple. Each developer checks the new ios is working for their apps. They adapt apps, they bug fix the new ios. They release a new version. In a lot of cases they are not compatible till an action is performed.


support guys can't provide a valid help because daily they are forced to replicate those issues, library after library, so they are overwhelmed



Btw, aquarius installs things where you set
There is a settings menu. We never never never experienced an installation of a repository in a place different from the folder you set in that menu. There is just this menu in aquarius, nothing else. So I don't understand how it could be error prone

uve
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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:34 pm

Again you don't understand.

This had nothing to do with 3rd party libraries, or some problem with the repository, or Aquarius putting the repository in the wrong place.

Support has no reason to be overwhelmed with 3rd party libraries in this case, because it had nothing to do with it.

I give up because there is no understanding here. All of this is leading to more confusion on AA's part.

Since all I am getting is non-sensical talk, I am truly out.

I tried to leave this thread alone a long time ago, and now I want to keep my word.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:45 pm

One more thing though:

You are threatening to drop N3 support in the N4 Full Version.

For reasons that have nothing to do with the N3 libraries.

If you do so, you are in breach of contract because you promised N4 Full would load N3 libraries.

If you actually drop N3 support in N4 Full, I want a refund for N4, and a refund on all the N3 libraries I have purchased. N4 Full was my first Nebula product, I bought ALL my N3 libraries after I purchased N4.

Again, you would be in breach of contract, and I would expect a full refund on all my nebula purchases, including 3rd party purchases.

Especially as this whole debacle has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with 3rd party providers.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:48 pm

The refund on my N3 libraries can come directly from AA, because the 3rd party providers ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for your threats, or the problems you are claiming.

You have created an enormous mess on this thread.

Ok, I hope to be out of this incredible mess of a thread.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by giancarlo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:50 pm

We are not affiliated with them.
We don't have control on them or their products.
Technically they are products based on our one...
Technically we are clients like you for those products.
It is like you want refund for Photoshop from Microsoft because Adobe tells you they are not responsible for a Windows update.

On the other side we support refunds on all official products, and official 3rd party developers.
They are on our system and we access their internals. They also are using our official tools and techniques (while other ones are accessing old tools and things we are not supporting any more)
They are on our marketplace.


I'll evaluate the situation tomorrow (comparing a similar example, the kontakt case), an official statement will follow

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by giancarlo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:56 pm

About the contract:
Nebula 4 officially supports nebula 3 format.
It doesn't mean it supports all possible things released for nebula 3. For example a library could be based on things which are unsupported, and it barely works on nebula 3 and it breaks in nebula 4
Now: I think it is responsibility of a developer to keep the library updated - and to contact us if something breaks. Considering they are not paying royalties I think this is fair, and it could help us to relax our support work a little bit

@uve your case is not related with the case I describing, and I'm answering to the original post.
Anyway we could support you in a better way if there were less tickets. Number of tickets nowadays is highly proportional to the high number of libraries and variables. I think we could be way better if problems were reported by 3rd party and not users, because they know what they are doing.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:58 pm

Mine is the original post.

I am at least glad that you realize that at least in my case, it was not a 3rd party library problem.

I do not know what shows up in your other support tickets.

I have decided not to contact AA support any longer, it is obvious I need to fix my problems myself, which I end up doing after a lot of headaches. It is a sad state of affairs. The problems I have had to solve myself are AA problems that are often complex.

At least one person (me) will not be bothering support any longer. I will be my own support department.

I will just end by saying I do not deserve to penalized by AA if they drop N3 support for something that was not an N3 problem (at least in my case.) It was an AA problem. If I added to this fire, realize you are blaming the wrong person (me.)

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:02 am

I will also say that you have made it clear in your last post that N4 supports N3.

And at least in my case, I do contact the 3rd party if it is a 3rd party problem. I do not contact AA in such a case.

In any case, I still give up on AA support for the multiple reasons mentioned above.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by giancarlo » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:38 am

Problem arises because support is overwhelmed.
Support is overwhelmed because we are trying to support a thing which is bigger than ourselves.
Just excluding 3rd party libraries from the equation would reduce immensely the number of cases, and the number of possible failures

For example they could ask to remove all 3rd party libraries, and if the problem persists, they could ask to create a fresh installation (the difference from removing all 3rd party libraries and the installation of nebula from the scratch should be exactly the same). At this point, of the problem persists the only possible reason could be a double installation (because a fresh installation was tested thousands of times)
Sometimes we ask to the user if there is a double installation and the user negates it. Since it is quite impossible to help as user which is installing products in multiple locations and he is not really removing all of them when we ask to do it, the only possible solution I see is about reducing support to simple cases. We would have less tickets and more time for answering.
What makes me think this could be a great solution: avoiding a direct support of 3rd party libraries it is something all companies are doing nowadays.
Several companies are avoiding support even for products which belong to the marketplace,ie apple. Simply we are trying to inherit a bad business model, and at the current company size this model doesn't work any more.
I'm tired about comments about users getting a "terrible support", which seems to be as prerogative of acustica audio, and at the same time all other companies are delegating support to 3rd party libraries. When we analyze tickets we discover that most of our support tickets are about nebula, and a lot of them require to simulate the same library installation, and this is a very long task. Sometimes we don't have those libraries. Sometimes we don't even know what the user is speaking about.
This is time consuming, and it is stealing time for doing other things - ie answering tickets in a slower way.

There are 2 os, 4 architectures, 7 different formats. We have 40 products. Nebula alone is featuring a 500 programs library. Everything is barely manageable this way, and we have to add support to 16000 external programs featured in 600+ libraries, constantly growing and not even released by ourselves.
So we don't have just 100 possible sequencers to test, but also the combination with thousands of external programs generated by 3rd party developers, this task would be thoughtful for Microsoft itself, go figure a company of 10 guys.
And everything could work very well just limiting support a little bit, delegating to 3rd party at least their homework.

Just to continue my example, if you ask a support from Microsoft for a faulty Windows they ask to install a fresh one, without installing further things. If you ask them why Photoshop is crashing they will ask to contact Adobe support. Microsoft is a multi billionaire company, and most of times they have an idea about why a 3rd party product doesn't work, but they avoid to support it, nor matter the size or the importance of the partner.
Everything is clean and straightforward, and they could concentrate their efforts to issues introduced by them, not by adobe.
Adobe can verify a problem is caused by Microsoft and look for a solution.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:10 pm

For the last time, mine was not a 3rd party problem. I solved the problem myself.

If you are having problems specifically created by 3rd parties with problems in their programs, this is not what I was complaining about.

You are totally off-topic.

I will only respond this one last time because there is still a communication breakdown.

Bye - for good.

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by AcusticaPress » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:34 pm

uve wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:10 pm
For the last time, mine was not a 3rd party problem. I solved the problem myself.

If you are having problems specifically created by 3rd parties with problems in their programs, this is not what I was complaining about.

You are totally off-topic.

I will only respond this one last time because there is still a communication breakdown.

Bye - for good.
Hey uve, I am sorry for your troubles. I think that Giancarlo understood that your issue is not related to 3rd party libraries. What he is saying that support on our side for unofficial libraries is slowing support down and it is one of the reasons to take longer for them to reply to your messages. And so withdrawing it should help increase the reply speed.
Acustica Press
Acusticaudio SRL
www.acustica-audio.com

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Re: Terrible Support

Post by uve » Tue May 01, 2018 3:30 am

Ok

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