(User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Acqua

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Re: (Recommendation) Computer System to work with Neb/Acqua

Post by jfjer379 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:37 pm

many thanks for sharing this useful info SoundForSoul
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Re: (Recommendation) Computer System to work with Neb/Acqua

Post by SoundForSoul » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:53 pm

Please take into account that I used like 7 Whites and 6 Titaniums, etc in the same session, so maybe it should be more relevant if I would have used only one plugin, like Lime, and then maybe it would be something like on Hackie I could have load 40 full instances (pres, insane, eqs) and on Win 10 it would have been around 60.
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Re: (Recommendation) Computer System to work with Neb/Acqua

Post by davidgary73 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:26 pm

Added more infos from various users with system recommendation etc on first post.

Would be great if everyone here can chip in your system specs to help other build a PC to work with Neb/Acqua :)

Cheers
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Re: (Recommendation) Computer System to work with Neb/Acqua

Post by giancarlo » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:34 pm

Phelix wrote:
davidgary73 wrote:If anyone of you who has a powerful working comp that runs heaps of Neb/Acqua, please pen it here and i'm post it on the first post.
I perfectly understand your interest in building a wonder-machine for Nebula:) Hope you'll keep us updated on your choices and evaluations in contrast to your existing setup. Since we all have different conditions and requirements of our workflow, it is always interesting to hear opinions from various experiences.

When it comes to the choice of DAW, and from everything I’ve read, I’m pretty convinced there is limited efficiency from using audio units on macOS, also I assume this is quite challenging for AA. I believe AU/Logic in combination is a real culprit, not macOS in general. Although Reaper is super efficient as a tool, I have just about same performance across all my DAW using the vst format, and my recommendations is to choose a sequencer that handles multiple formats, not being tied up.

Going from 4th to 6th gen Intel made a tremendous difference here. The studio machine, an iMac5K (CTO) is able to run 6 fully engaged CORAL strips without glitches. The old 2010-Mac was already maxed out by less than two instances of coral, so I’m more than satisfied. For other reasons and various graphical work tasks, migrating my workflow to PC isn’t going to happen anytime soon, that's for sure!

RAM shortage was never the bottleneck here. Even with dozens (50+) of light-weight Acquas, the memory pressure hardly exceeds 7-8GB in total. Suggestions from AA about having more than 64GB RAM seems out of proportion to me, but maybe it is a general requirement in efficient PC systems, or perhaps part of future AA product strategy(?)
hubi123 wrote:I got a new hackintosh. Benchmark 44 k( twice my name ld 2013 Mac pro
12 core). And I can't get anywhere near 90 plugins.
It's a 10 core 4.3 GHz i7 128 GB RAM.
Just out of curiosity, how many fully engaged CORAL strips are you able to run with that monster configuration? :-) I believe coral is good for quick benchmark as it loads multiple nebulas, everything in HQ (insane) mode.
6 coral is KILLER. Each coral is composed by around 36 nebula plugins, so basically you are running 216 nebula inside, and many of them are really using the cpu quite a lot

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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by SoundForSoul » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:00 pm

Allrite, so here I am with the specs after 3 hours of benchmarking test to share with ya'll Acustica heads, as a celebration for the Gold release. Hackie Yosemite 10.10.2 vs Win 10 - I am reminding you the hardware - on my build (5960x -8cores,16threads - liquid cooled OCed @4.2Ghz, 16GB Ram(will add some more, since the free ram was only about 3-4Gb after adding all the acquas), Gtx970 GPU, 1200i Corsair, Asus Deluxe X99 mobo, Cubase Pro 8.5.30, NI Komplete 6 @512 buffer.
On pc I have installed the trials (didn't want to loose the license slots only for a test), on Hackie the licensed Coral and the Gold Strip trial - all of the plugins were with everything turned on (preamp, insane, all eqs, etc.). It was a 44.1 24 bit session with around 14 audio tracks routed on 7 groups. All the plugins were on group inserts, not on the tracks themselves, not on the master bus. On the previous test I got a 25-30% better performace on win running trials over hackie with licensed, but now , surprise-surprise, a consistent 20-25% better performace on hackie vs win 10 !!! which makes me think that I have done smth wrong in the past (will re-check). So here they are; GOLD strip trial, everything on - 24 instances on Hackie, 20 on Win, CORAL trial on win, licensed on mac- everything on - 13 instances on Hackie, 10 instances on win.
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by SoundForSoul » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:40 pm

I just finished the tests in Logic Pro x 10.2.3, on the same build, increased the buffer to 1024, and got 29 instances of fully engaged (eqs, insane comp and pre) Golds on the groups ( instead of 24 in Cubase) and 15 Corals (instead of 13 on Cubase), so there is a 20% boost of performance between Logic and Cubase, on my hackie's Yosemite 10.10.2, with also 1024 buffer instead of 512 in Cubase. But I still prefer Cubase for its rendering algorithm - on very complex projects (lots of sends and sidechains between the channel), what comes out of Logic after bouncing doesn't sound the same as while playbacking the project - while in Cubase it's not the case - what you hear is what you get after exporting (at least to my ears). So even though Logic tends to handle my cpu better, I still prefer Cubase for the rendering accuracy.
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by davidgary73 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:13 am

SoundForSoul wrote:I just finished the tests in Logic Pro x 10.2.3, on the same build, increased the buffer to 1024, and got 29 instances of fully engaged (eqs, insane comp and pre) Golds on the groups ( instead of 24 in Cubase) and 15 Corals (instead of 13 on Cubase), so there is a 20% boost of performance between Logic and Cubase, on my hackie's Yosemite 10.10.2, with also 1024 buffer instead of 512 in Cubase. But I still prefer Cubase for its rendering algorithm - on very complex projects (lots of sends and sidechains between the channel), what comes out of Logic after bouncing doesn't sound the same as while playbacking the project - while in Cubase it's not the case - what you hear is what you get after exporting (at least to my ears). So even though Logic tends to handle my cpu better, I still prefer Cubase for the rendering accuracy.
Thank you Alex for this test. I've copied your test on first post. Now i have doubt rendering in Logic hahaha. Perhaps you can try rendering in Logic 10.3.1 and see if there's a difference since it has 64bit summing engine?

Another great post by mpr in gearslutz in regards to 7700k.
mpr wrote:I justified the expense for a water cooled 6950x + 64gb + ssd boot and storages drive because I charge by the song so the faster I render, the sooner I get paid.

I would spend over an hour a day waiting for renders on my old mac that cost 8k 5 years ago... And the PC is literally 100x times faster for less than half the price.

But, the new 7700k is much cheaper and the performance when clocked up is very close to what the non overclocked 6950x can deliver. I think the 7700 would deliver plenty of Aqua headroom, even at 96khz.
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by Phelix » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:54 am

SoundForSoul wrote:Allrite, so here I am with the specs after 3 hours of benchmarking test to share with ya'll Acustica heads, as a celebration for the Gold release. Hackie Yosemite 10.10.2 vs Win 10 - I am reminding you the hardware - on my build (5960x -8cores,16threads - liquid cooled OCed @4.2Ghz, 16GB Ram(will add some more, since the free ram was only about 3-4Gb after adding all the acquas), Gtx970 GPU, 1200i Corsair, Asus Deluxe X99 mobo, Cubase Pro 8.5.30, NI Komplete 6 @512 buffer.
On pc I have installed the trials (didn't want to loose the license slots only for a test), on Hackie the licensed Coral and the Gold Strip trial - all of the plugins were with everything turned on (preamp, insane, all eqs, etc.). It was a 44.1 24 bit session with around 14 audio tracks routed on 7 groups. All the plugins were on group inserts, not on the tracks themselves, not on the master bus. On the previous test I got a 25-30% better performace on win running trials over hackie with licensed, but now , surprise-surprise, a consistent 20-25% better performace on hackie vs win 10 !!! which makes me think that I have done smth wrong in the past (will re-check). So here they are; GOLD strip trial, everything on - 24 instances on Hackie, 20 on Win, CORAL trial on win, licensed on mac- everything on - 13 instances on Hackie, 10 instances on win.
That’s pretty wild, now totally opposite results!!

I was about to comment on your initial shootout, asking about what plug-in format you utilize across platform, with suggestion strictly to use Core 9 inserts. I have a small suspicion that previous Acqua engines are not performing their best in Cubase/macOS. From what I've heard, I'm thinking certain ASIO Guard settings might conflict with some plug-in buffer/ahead settings, but I could be totally wrong here. I assume you already investigated this carefully.

For even better distribution of core resources, I would expect improved performance by running the latest macOS (Sierra), but maybe this does not apply to a hackintosh.


–btw. I agree about the sonic imprint from summing in LPX. Kind of difficult for me to describe in plain words, ‘sterile’, ‘less cohesive’, or perhaps just not my cup of tea… However, the package has great value for money!
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by SoundForSoul » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:24 am

Phelix, thank you for posting, indeed, what comes out of Logic after bouncing seems to be much flatter than what you can hear while playbacking the project. It was the day one of my customers noticed that, too, that I decided to move to my first love (Cubase - and I also got two series of complete CMC controllers (2x9 pieces) that I love to play with). Indeed, Logic has great value. Since I have Yosemite, I cannot install the latest version (10.3 - released 2 weeks ago which states to have: "Logic Pro now offers a 64-bit summing engine." I would be curious if this adress the flat sounding issue of the bounce files.). It is not obvious when combining a drumloop with a bass and a synth, but when running different sends to different reverbs, delays, sidechains, it becomes pretty obvious). Could you please give it a try to its latest version and tell me if you could noticed any improvement ?
Backto the subject: I re-ran all the tests done yesterday, thinking that I should make a new cubase project in windows, fresh, rather than opening the one made in the mac version of it - but the results were the same (even though on its first run, the Cubase let me copy 29 Gold fully engaged instances among its group inserts, just like Logic did on yosemite, when I tried to re-open the project, Cubase was really stucked - so I had to get back to 20 Golds to get it run smoothly, and the same thing happened in the mac version of Cubase - it let me open and copy 24 fully engaged Golds among its group inserts, saved, re-started Cubase, then I had to reduce them to 22 in order to run smoothly - but still it was a difference of 10 percent (2 Golds) between the same project running smoothly in Mac Cubase vs Win Cubase, from the very same hard disk, on the same build. Nevertheless, Logic was performing the same: it ran smoothly 29 instances of fully engaged GOld copied among its group inserts (with the same audio files and group routings like the Cubase sessions). I even let the cooling system to be fully running all the time, since it seemed to me that on Win the threshold for running the cpu cooling system to its fullest potential was set lower than in Mac os - so i set it from bios to run at its maximum speed all the time - no performance differences occured. I will report these findings to Steinberg, since in windows the task manager was showing a cpu usage of around 70% when Cubase started to hiccup with Golds and around 80-85% with Corals.
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by Phelix » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:44 am

Could you please give it a try to its latest version and tell me if you could noticed any improvement ?
No unfortunately not, didn’t buy LPX ’·
– so funny, Giancarlo writing on GS the original console for Gold only contains 16 mono channels!!
We’re miles ahead in raw power!
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by SoundForSoul » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm

sweet update: It seems that my windows cubase pro 8.5 had the asio guard settings to "normal", not "high", like it was on yosemite - switched it to High and I got 24 Fully engaged Golds working, both win and mac, on cubase pro 8.5.30. Also, installed the new Cubase Elements 9 and got 27 instances due to better cpu handling , so I will also update do Cubase Pro 9 asap. On logic pro x 10.2.3 I got 29 full golds.
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by davidgary73 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:49 am

A superb results from Will The Weirdo on Gold

i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 43 FullStrip, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 66 Pre, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 70 EQ, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 100 Comp, Win 7, Reaper
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by mchillak » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:19 am

davidgary73 wrote:A superb results from Will The Weirdo on Gold

i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 43 FullStrip, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 66 Pre, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 70 EQ, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 100 Comp, Win 7, Reaper
Yeah those results are amazing. Im noticing no one on Win 10 is getting anywhere close to that. Makes me wonder if I should have stayed on Win 7.

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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by davidgary73 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:42 am

mchillak wrote:
davidgary73 wrote:A superb results from Will The Weirdo on Gold

i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 43 FullStrip, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 66 Pre, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 70 EQ, Win 7, Reaper
i7 5820K(6C/12T) - 100 Comp, Win 7, Reaper
Yeah those results are amazing. Im noticing no one on Win 10 is getting anywhere close to that. Makes me wonder if I should have stayed on Win 7.
I reckon you should have a Win 7 partition and see what's the outcome.

I'm planning to build new comp with i7 7700k and i'm kind a worried since it can only support Win 10.

What shock me most comparing it to a high end CPU i7 6950x 10core, 20 threads can't even reach what Will has..:o
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Re: (User's Recommendation) Computer System to work v Neb/Ac

Post by SoundForSoul » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:59 am

I think it's more about reaper than about the windows version, but I must to reckon the specs are amazing. Was the comp on insane mode and were all the eqs turned on?
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