Magenta II very soon!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Support » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:41 am

garry_spectrum wrote:Giancarlo,

I'd love to read your feedback in regards to my latest enquiry about Magenta having a number of deviations from the hardware it is replicating, your marketing statements and eventually ways and means of solving those issues.

Should I be opening an official tech support ticket on the issue ?

Kindly -

Garry
Which issue?
Best regards,
Enrique Silveti.
Acustica Audio customer and technical support
http://www.acustica-audio.com

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:46 pm

Support wrote:
garry_spectrum wrote:Giancarlo,

I'd love to read your feedback in regards to my latest enquiry about Magenta having a number of deviations from the hardware it is replicating, your marketing statements and eventually ways and means of solving those issues.

Should I be opening an official tech support ticket on the issue ?

Kindly -

Garry
Which issue?
This issue >

When all of the bands are activated the difference "is not subtle" at all.

Actually, here's a quick test you can run in your daw of choice:

- instantiate a pink noise generator (via sinal generator or similar);
- put voxengo span and/or other analyzer on your masterbus;
- notice the smooth distribution of noise across the spectrum;
- put an instance of Magenta on the noise track and activate the bands one by one;
- now look at the analyzer again.

You should be able to see 4-5db of increased top end of 6k and onwards and that is not subtle + the actual hardware does not do that. It is just a mistake in adding filter curves on top of each other as a math function.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Support » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:03 pm

You should be able to see 4-5db of increased top end of 6k and onwards and that is not subtle + the actual hardware does not do that. It is just a mistake in adding filter curves on top of each other as a math function.
At 6 kHz is around +0.80 dB. Check Smaart plot and my replay.
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Acustica Audio customer and technical support
http://www.acustica-audio.com

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Mannymac » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:58 pm

Can't wait for Magenta II to be released. Any chance we'll get it this week?

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:41 am

Support wrote:
You should be able to see 4-5db of increased top end of 6k and onwards and that is not subtle + the actual hardware does not do that. It is just a mistake in adding filter curves on top of each other as a math function.
At 6 kHz is around +0.80 dB. Check Smaart plot and my replay.
Let's not play this push and pull in empiric values.

There is a clear deviation both technically and sound wise.

This issue needs to be resolved!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Support » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:08 am

This issue needs to be resolved!
No issue and no bug, bands are connected in serial in Magenta, due bands coherence levels are summed. Acqua parallel processing is planned but no implemented yet, we go slow in order to maintain backward compatibility.
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Acustica Audio customer and technical support
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Jantex » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:51 am

And that's exactly the reason why I already mentioned that Magenta is an useless product whenever one needs to use more than a single band at a time. Everything gets overly bright and harsh immediately.
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by himhui » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:02 pm

Jantex wrote:And that's exactly the reason why I already mentioned that Magenta is an useless product whenever one needs to use more than a single band at a time. Everything gets overly bright and harsh immediately.
You may say it's not perfect for you but it's obviously far away from useless...
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:12 pm

Support wrote:
This issue needs to be resolved!
No issue and no bug, bands are connected in serial in Magenta, due bands coherence levels are summed. Acqua parallel processing is planned but no implemented yet, we go slow in order to maintain backward compatibility.
Since the product has been marketed and compared officially to the hardware counterpart, hence you do have a problem. And you have proven so in your own posts earlier. The hardware is not serial but rather a passive design.

Moreover, claims like "No issue and no bug" are unacceptable. Prove it!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:37 pm

garry_spectrum wrote:
Support wrote:
This issue needs to be resolved!
No issue and no bug, bands are connected in serial in Magenta, due bands coherence levels are summed. Acqua parallel processing is planned but no implemented yet, we go slow in order to maintain backward compatibility.
Since the product has been marketed and compared officially to the hardware counterpart, hence you do have a problem. And you have proven so in your own posts earlier. The hardware is not serial but rather a passive design.

Moreover, claims like "No issue and no bug" are unacceptable. Prove it!
actually the tech is limited to serial fashion
It means you have the same issue if you have two hardware units and you connect them. When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:40 am

giancarlo wrote:
actually the tech is limited to serial fashion
It means you have the same issue if you have two hardware units and you connect them. When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it.
Now that we have an official confirmation that your own technology is limited to sampling in a serial fashion it hence brings us to the point that I have been writing about, which is Magenta does not correctly model the hardware that it is based on.

The hardware box is a passive design featuring a "parallel" symmetrical topology.

Taking all of the above mentioned into account I believe it is highly unprofessional for a support representative to argue with a customer and prove a point that does not correspond to reality.

"When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it."

This one is a somewhat better answer. At least it accepts the deficiency of the product at its current state.

Peace out!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by giancarlo » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:03 am

garry_spectrum wrote:
giancarlo wrote:
actually the tech is limited to serial fashion
It means you have the same issue if you have two hardware units and you connect them. When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it.
Now that we have an official confirmation that your own technology is limited to sampling in a serial fashion it hence brings us to the point that I have been writing about, which is Magenta does not correctly model the hardware that it is based on.

The hardware box is a passive design featuring a "parallel" symmetrical topology.

Taking all of the above mentioned into account I believe it is highly unprofessional for a support representative to argue with a customer and prove a point that does not correspond to reality.

"When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it."

This one is a somewhat better answer. At least it accepts the deficiency of the product at its current state.

Peace out!
all products are somewhat missing something
When you open a plugin from an other company which sounds "boring" and "dull" they are obviously missing something else from the hardware world. So they have an other "bug". This is a deficiency aswell.

So it is a matter of what you are looking for.
If you are looking for something which emulates correctly the band interaction there are plenty of magenta alternatives
The point is if they have really the same analog taste and if we can consider really them spot on.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:11 am

giancarlo wrote:
garry_spectrum wrote:
giancarlo wrote:
actually the tech is limited to serial fashion
It means you have the same issue if you have two hardware units and you connect them. When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it.
Now that we have an official confirmation that your own technology is limited to sampling in a serial fashion it hence brings us to the point that I have been writing about, which is Magenta does not correctly model the hardware that it is based on.

The hardware box is a passive design featuring a "parallel" symmetrical topology.

Taking all of the above mentioned into account I believe it is highly unprofessional for a support representative to argue with a customer and prove a point that does not correspond to reality.

"When we'll be able to do it better we'll do it."

This one is a somewhat better answer. At least it accepts the deficiency of the product at its current state.

Peace out!
all products are somewhat missing something
When you open a plugin from an other company which sounds "boring" and "dull" they are obviously missing something else from the hardware world. So they have an other "bug". This is a deficiency aswell.

So it is a matter of what you are looking for.
If you are looking for something which emulates correctly the band interaction there are plenty of magenta alternatives
The point is if they have really the same analog taste and if we can consider really them spot on.

That's a good point Giancarlo!

Actually a spot on statement from a developer that has managed to bring an alternative approach to the table.

The reason I am spending this much time proving my point is that I believe you guys have the guts to make a spot on model with Magenta. And it is my responsibility as a customer to bring each and every deficiency that I know of to your attention so that you guys have the chance to push the envelope even further and hence raise the bar.

The audio software world is quite a niche community and a two way street. Developers and customers should work in close communication and actually pay attention to each others needs.

I think it is an utmost priority for any company to think about customer satisfaction as opposed to arguing without paying attention to the real issues that are being stated.

Constructive discussions are key in making better product and hence happy customers.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by giancarlo » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:22 am

we'll try to do our best though :)
A viable solution will be adopted on a different product.
There are other little drawbacks, so a perfect solution still does not exists atm

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Jantex » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:55 am

Thank you, giancarlo. I respect your honesty. I knew about the commulative difference of a serial topology vs. parallel from the beginning and immediately noticed it when trying out Magenta for the first time. Still I think Magenta is a nice EQ when you don't need to engage more than two bands. After that it really becomes a harshness parade, but as you mentioned it, it is a drawback of the technology at a present state.
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