Magenta II very soon!

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giancarlo
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by giancarlo » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:46 am

Phelix wrote:
giancarlo wrote:New features:
- very accurate interpolation engine
- very good 44.1 and 48 Khz
- incredible speed and cpu performances
- reduced and pretty low latency (the same as ivory
I have big expectations for the improvements in v2.
The current version I find much too sensitive, especially in the highs, but perhaps that’s just the case here:)

Will there be more frequencies, or just better interpolation of existing vectors?

In the case of Magenta, I always wondered if the different HW models/editions would produce the same amount of filtering, even if the bands are at unity gain.
no what you are asking is the mastering version, with a different excursion range (10dB vs 20)

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Phelix » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:51 pm

yes, I understand AA have not yet sampled such ME unit, it would be very welcome!

What I was trying to describe is that Magenta is changing gain and filtering, even if the bands is turned on, but left in initial position. From what I have read in the topics, the is caused by the actual sampled piece, and therefore also present in Magenta.

About the gain adjustments, I understand it is based on linear curve in contrast to a logarithmic behavior, which I personally would prefer when performing final subtle adjustments.

And yes, I use micro-shift-control to dial knobs, I even set up an ultra low-range automation matrix, but still the impact is quite jumpy, and I do hope that v2 will contribute towards an improved user experience.

– I’m not critical about the sound of the current Magenta, just that I find it tricky to control for my purposes :)
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by flipnautold » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:03 pm

all what i can say is that i don't like the shelvings on this eq...^^^But as i read... the original version doesnt sound good on shelvings too..
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by RJHollins » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:36 am

flipnaut wrote:all what i can say is that i don't like the shelvings on this eq...^^^But as i read... the original version doesnt sound good on shelvings too..
Are you refering to the HP/LP filters ? or the wide Q settings of the individual bands ?
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Phelix » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:32 am

RJHollins wrote:
flipnaut wrote:all what i can say is that i don't like the shelvings on this eq...^^^But as i read... the original version doesnt sound good on shelvings too..
Are you refering to the HP/LP filters ? or the wide Q settings of the individual bands ?
It could never be the cut-off filters, and I believe the Q-value is determining the actual slope of the chosen type of shelf.

Below is my own comparison concerning Hi / Lo pass filters and some shelves @4.7k.

It doesn't tell anything about the actual sound-quality, but I think it’s interesting to observe the character of i.e. the Magenta high shelves within the full range.
HPF-LPF_39+12k.jpg
HiShlvCut_4.7k.jpg
HiShlvBoost_4.7k.jpg
Last edited by Phelix on Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by nonstandardryder » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:47 pm

Phelix wrote: It could never be the cut-off filters, and I believe the Q-value is determining the actual slope of the chosen type of shelf.

Below is my own comparison concerning Hi / Lo pass filters and some shelves @4.7k.

It doesn't tell anything about the actual sound-quality, but I think it’s interesting to observe the character of i.e. the Magenta hi-cut shelf in the full range.
HPF-LPF_39+12k.jpg
HiShlvCut_4.7k.jpg
HiShlvBoost_4.7k.jpg
This explains a lot, I always thought the 33hz low cut was taking out a bit to much low end, and that the high shelf was a bit extreme.

What software did you use to make these? I would love to test some my self. I have used qclone to test in the past but it's kind of a pain.

I also wonder how the phase looks on this eq. Like the ones tested at around 8 mins here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKabAQQsPQ

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Phelix » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:11 pm

yes exactly, the ears are the best tools, apart from that, visual tools can be great help to project various properties. If you’re on pc you can check out the VST Plugin Analyser (free) also used by Mr. Worrall in the vid. I used smaartV7 in the examples above. The phase-shift and magnitude is also nice to know, I just didn’t include it in the clips.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by flipnautold » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:52 am

i meant the high shelf boost^^

The low and high cut works for me often at 18khz and around the 30hz... and is fine.

Extremly the shelf at 28khz sounds anyhow wired. I use my shelf boost often at 12khz for Air / overheads. And mostly the other dip-boost (non shelf) sounds better.
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Support » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:50 pm

Phelix wrote:yes exactly, the ears are the best tools, apart from that, visual tools can be great help to project various properties. If you’re on pc you can check out the VST Plugin Analyser (free) also used by Mr. Worrall in the vid. I used smaartV7 in the examples above. The phase-shift and magnitude is also nice to know, I just didn’t include it in the clips.
You should add Smaart phase plot, due sometimes small freq/level changes are big phase change and you heard something weird but you don't understand were is the real issue.
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:44 am

I don't remember if I've brought this to the community's attention yet but anyways I'd like to know if you guys at Acustica have thought of making Magenta sound as close to its big brother as possible by implementing the unique band interaction that derives from the passive design of the unit ?

Another thing would be the inaccurate high frequency boost when all bands are simply turned on. The real unit does have a certain amount of colour when you let the audio just go through the box but yet it is nowhere near being a 5db deviation from the input signal.

Cheers!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by giancarlo » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:41 am

garry_spectrum wrote:I don't remember if I've brought this to the community's attention yet but anyways I'd like to know if you guys at Acustica have thought of making Magenta sound as close to its big brother as possible by implementing the unique band interaction that derives from the passive design of the unit ?

Another thing would be the inaccurate high frequency boost when all bands are simply turned on. The real unit does have a certain amount of colour when you let the audio just go through the box but yet it is nowhere near being a 5db deviation from the input signal.

Cheers!
we'll do this kind of effort on a product named "Scarlet". They will be two products, sold separately. One of them will implement two different releases, and one is based on parallel interaction among bands. It is a prototype

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:35 pm

giancarlo wrote:
garry_spectrum wrote:I don't remember if I've brought this to the community's attention yet but anyways I'd like to know if you guys at Acustica have thought of making Magenta sound as close to its big brother as possible by implementing the unique band interaction that derives from the passive design of the unit ?

Another thing would be the inaccurate high frequency boost when all bands are simply turned on. The real unit does have a certain amount of colour when you let the audio just go through the box but yet it is nowhere near being a 5db deviation from the input signal.

Cheers!
we'll do this kind of effort on a product named "Scarlet". They will be two products, sold separately. One of them will implement two different releases, and one is based on parallel interaction among bands. It is a prototype
Hi Giancarlo,

Thank you for your answer!

I am glad to learn you do have plans on implementing the band interdependencies down the road. However it would be nice to see it done in Magenta as well since it has been marketed and compared to the actual hardware from the start. Or maybe providing a copy of Scarlet to those who actually supported Magenta in the very early stages and purchased it + the mastering add-on pack as a digital implementation of the hardware ? There are many options!

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by flipnautold » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:36 pm

well... when i put magenta onto the master, turning on all bands, and not using any gain... i hear a difference: a light sheen or something - i don't know exactly what happens... but there is something. Harmonic distortion or whatever. Perhaps giancarlo could say more to this?

Of course you should have a very good acoustic and monitors to hear that. And i guess also the volume pushed into the plugin plays a role...

But i guess also that most people would not hear this minimal colour. And if it is in the mix or not plays not an obvious role. The hardware unit would do much much more - just because of tubes and so on... that shapes the sound.
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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by garry_spectrum » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:44 pm

flipnaut wrote:well... when i put magenta onto the master, turning on all bands, and not using any gain... i hear a difference: a light sheen or something - i don't know exactly what happens... but there is something. Harmonic distortion or whatever. Perhaps giancarlo could say more to this?

Of course you should have a very good acoustic and monitors to hear that. And i guess also the volume pushed into the plugin plays a role...

But i guess also that most people would not hear this minimal colour. And if it is in the mix or not plays not an obvious role. The hardware unit would do much much more - just because of tubes and so on... that shapes the sound.
When all of the bands are activated the difference "is not subtle" at all.

Actually, here's a quick test you can run in your daw of choice:

- instantiate a pink noise generator (via sinal generator or similar);
- put voxengo span and/or other analyzer on your masterbus;
- notice the smooth distribution of noise across the spectrum;
- put an instance of Magenta on the noise track and activate the bands one by one;
- now look at the analyzer again.

You should be able to see 4-5db of increased top end of 6k and onwards and that is not subtle + the actual hardware does not do that. It is just a mistake in adding filter curves on top of each other as a math function.

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Re: Magenta II very soon!

Post by Mannymac » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:06 pm

Giancarlo, are there plans on fixing thos so Magenta really behaves like the hardware?

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