Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

BG23
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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by BG23 » Sat May 05, 2018 9:54 am

giancarlo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 5:42 am
BG23 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:17 am
corbobilly wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 1:01 am
You're lucky: the demo version don't work fine, at home in AU or VST version .
He asks me to authorize the product !

Should I also send the product computer identification, in demo version ?
Same shit here :roll:
Today even other aquas like Diamond and Amethyst show "please authorize this product" W T F :shock:
I'm tired, I don't have time to solve these, I already work in the IT as sysadmin solving problems, back home I just want things going fine.

And yes: I know how to install stuff, I know how computers work and blablabla. I have even updated Aquarius to "full" version (with the portable all was fine for months).
Ticket.
Possibile reasons:

- internal crash when the sequencer is saving
- In Windows your main hdd is removable
- you are running out of memory in 32 bits systems
- I'm not even saving, I just open a DAW and I can't use some Aqua plugins
- I have 2 hhds, none of them removable
- 64bit since 2012


How is this even possible, and be a user fault??

Image

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by RJHollins » Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am

Did you install with Aquarius ?

2. Did you run Aquarius in Administrative Mode ?

3. If I may, the reason for the TICKET system is a method for a user with an issue to supplied detailed System information.
The includes Computer, OS, plugin format, etc.

Not that it to helpful ... I did test the raise plugins on my beta-test system [PC-64, VST-2], and all Authorized and work.

Obviously there is a problem being had ... but in order to Fix it ... it has to be Re-Created first.

just trying to point out the obvious ...
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BG23
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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by BG23 » Sat May 05, 2018 10:50 am

I install and update with Aquarius since when it was out in beta portable, I have NEVER had a single issue until yesterday when I decided to test the new Cream.
Suddenly I have authorization problems even in other aquas!

You know what's more crazy? This:
Image

This screenshot is taken from my second pc, an IDENTICAL system (just HHD instead of SSD, but same model, CPU, RAM, etc) used as slave machine to double the CPU power.
This system is working as I left it last time :roll:
Difference between the two pcs? In this one I didn't install Cream yesterday.

BG23
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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by BG23 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:12 pm

Just used Aquarius (portable) in my slave machine (the one which works) to update Pink2 to the last version (R000 - 3 May 2018); I noticed that I haven't update this week when I did it on my main pc.
All works great, no errors, no authorization problems, system working fine as it should.

My main machine on the other hand still unusuable even after uninstalling Cream :evil:

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by bmanic » Sat May 05, 2018 1:39 pm

giancarlo wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:15 pm
yes they are unique. We didn't advertise it very much (similar to what an other developer did), but we have unique channels. The point, our ones are sampled and not based on a random variation on components. We are modeling a real object, channel after channel.
Indeed! However, where this "other developer" used these different channel tolerances to their advantage was with allowing true stereo processing.. so that you can get a strange or nice stereo width effect due to various tolerances of every single component in the model (this includes EQ and compressor timins too). This is NOT at all the case with Cream, which in my opinion is a bit of a lost opportunity. The user should be able to choose a dual-mono (aka true stereo, eh?) version of Cream where the user can then choose freely the pair of Line/mic channels separately for left and right.

This is easy setup in a host like Reaper and I've done it already just to check how it sounds. Unsurprisingly it sounds amazing.. so yeah, consider this a feature request for the future.

In short: Separately sampling tons of channels is only interesting if you can run them in dual-mono mode. Otherwise it's a bit of a wasted of time.

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by ce1909 » Sat May 05, 2018 3:24 pm

What are the other 2 in this plug-in series & what is the timeline for release?

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by giancarlo » Sat May 05, 2018 5:42 pm

BG23 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:50 am
I install and update with Aquarius since when it was out in beta portable, I have NEVER had a single issue until yesterday when I decided to test the new Cream.
Suddenly I have authorization problems even in other aquas!

You know what's more crazy? This:
Image

This screenshot is taken from my second pc, an IDENTICAL system (just HHD instead of SSD, but same model, CPU, RAM, etc) used as slave machine to double the CPU power.
This system is working as I left it last time :roll:
Difference between the two pcs? In this one I didn't install Cream yesterday.
yesterday they updated amethyst maybe? just revert to an older version if you you updated via aquarius OR raise a ticket. I don't have a clue, and support never reads the "new product alert" section.

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by robschroeder » Sat May 05, 2018 5:44 pm

bmanic wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 1:39 pm
This is easy setup in a host like Reaper and I've done it already just to check how it sounds. Unsurprisingly it sounds amazing.. so yeah, consider this a feature request for the future.
I did this in Studio One with the Channel Splitter too as my thought was that the channels could only be mono as a desk doesn't have stereo channels. So to have true stereo I splitted the signal in a left and right channel and inserted on each channel a preamp.

Would be great to have this possibility in CREAM directly. So +1 on your idea.

/Rob

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by giancarlo » Sat May 05, 2018 5:47 pm

bmanic wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 1:39 pm
giancarlo wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:15 pm
yes they are unique. We didn't advertise it very much (similar to what an other developer did), but we have unique channels. The point, our ones are sampled and not based on a random variation on components. We are modeling a real object, channel after channel.
Indeed! However, where this "other developer" used these different channel tolerances to their advantage was with allowing true stereo processing.. so that you can get a strange or nice stereo width effect due to various tolerances of every single component in the model (this includes EQ and compressor timins too). This is NOT at all the case with Cream, which in my opinion is a bit of a lost opportunity. The user should be able to choose a dual-mono (aka true stereo, eh?) version of Cream where the user can then choose freely the pair of Line/mic channels separately for left and right.

This is easy setup in a host like Reaper and I've done it already just to check how it sounds. Unsurprisingly it sounds amazing.. so yeah, consider this a feature request for the future.

In short: Separately sampling tons of channels is only interesting if you can run them in dual-mono mode. Otherwise it's a bit of a wasted of time.
there is a logical difference, but quite important. In one case you have a system composed by subsystems, and you see that elements are "not perfect". Following the imperfection used for being selected you have let's say N different channels with small differences. In our case we sampled "exactly" a console, channel after channel. We are not modeling a "random" console, but exactly a real one.
The difference between components is based on the age of components, on a large sets of imperfections, and even by partial recapping. Normally these consoles were really high-end, and at the very beginning the difference caused by this sort of tolerance was almost absent. When we model a difference it is because that difference is in that specific real item, it is not a guess.
If you take in consideration the whole cake, cream represents the first time this kind of emulation is applied to a whole console (not just few channels, not just random imperfections, and if it is not based on random choices, in our case we can guarantee each channel is exactly the same as the original one, channel after channel, accurately, harmonic response included). If someone already did it and I'm not aware, sorry for the confusion (but I don't see how it could be possible on a real console, considering the crazy number of components... you should make an accurate assessment of ALL OF THEM, or try to converge the imperfections as a result guessing original values for ALL OF THEM). Even in that case it is "acustica" approach, we are famous for the accuracy, and we are speading this accuracy to a very high number of channels (line AND mics!) (and it is a magic thing which is extremely easy to perform using our tools, and verified as pretty accurate).

About true stereo: if you ask to me the effect is completely absent on this kind of console. Crosstalk was measured and neglegible. Crosstalk is the only element which could bring something of channel L to channel R, for instance. It was something in the -100dB ballpark.
So in this case true stereo is overkill, and it would double the resource usage using our technique. We want something to apply to all channels. Now: cpu load is very very low today, and I can confirm it will be LOWER at least on windows side. We'll tell you more about a possible timeframe for this kind of update.

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by robschroeder » Sat May 05, 2018 5:53 pm

I think you misunderstood the intention of bmanic G. As far as I understand him, he does not complain that each channel was sampled (which of course is much better than "assuming" a channel).

What bmanic wants to say is, that it would be cool, as on a real console, to have a true stereo instance where we can select which preamp channel we want to use on the left and on the right side of a channel. Like on a real console with a stereo overhead signal. On a desk you will have to use two different channel. And as each channel has its differences it works as true stereo.

/Rob

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by giancarlo » Sat May 05, 2018 6:02 pm

I answered an that too, read carefully my message, expecially the last part.
I think I described also the process, and why it is UNIQUE.

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by giancarlo » Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm

just to be clear, each channel represents a double mono version of a single channel. If you want to emulate the console closely, just use mono instances. Yes cpu load will be doubled, obviously, but there is not a shortcut. If we were applying a double "compressor" we would fake and double the cpu load. On the real console you don't have a stereo instance. You have mono. You have a compressor on each channel. So if you want to be close to this kind of imperfection (different release times) you are forced ot work with mono channels, PERIOD. Also modeling first 2 channels in channel 1-2, stereo instance is stupid. It would double the amount of resources, and maybe you don't want it. It leads to confusion (how to route exactly a bass to channel 2?). In any case it would not solve crosstalk if any. Infact if there was a crosstalk, you would not model crosstalk from channel 2 to channel 3, since you are watching channels just as stereo instances (so true stereo doesn't solve it; you should have a sort of true stereo for contiguous channels, an thing which in the normal plugin land is not easy to do, maybe modula will allow it). So in any case the solution would be not complete anyway.
Luickily there is no crosstalk.
My 2 cents.

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by robschroeder » Sat May 05, 2018 6:23 pm

giancarlo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm
just to be clear, each channel represents a double mono version of a single channel.
I am aware of this as I have tested the plugin with mono and stereo channels. And as it provides a "stereo" image I assumed that it is doubled mono, as as we both wrote a console has only mono channels.
giancarlo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm
If you want to emulate the console closely, just use mono instances. Yes cpu load will be doubled, obviously, but there is not a shortcut.
I have no problem with CPU load doubled as it is my choice to work so. And in fact I am working exactly like you say. I use mono instances or, if it is a stereo instance I split the stereo file. Same for compressor of course.
giancarlo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm
Also modeling first 2 channels in channel 1-2, stereo instance is stupid. It would double the amount of resources, and maybe you don't want it. It leads to confusion (how to route exactly a bass to channel 2?).
That's why the idea came up to have a kind of "mono" Plugin and a kind of "stereo" plugin. The "mono" Plugin could be like CREAM is now, single channels doubled mono and the "stereo" plugin is a model of example channel 1-2 into a stereo channel.

But G, you are deeper in the development and ideas and so on. It's really not an issue just an idea which arose. If it would be possible - fine. If not also fine. CREAM in my eyes is good as it is. The other ideas are, from my side only a "bonus".

/Rob

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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by RJHollins » Sat May 05, 2018 6:47 pm

Crosstalk is NOT the only parameter that can possibly induce a 'stereo-izing' effect ...

Slight differences in each channels Freq spectrum curve, produces the 'Haas Effect' [Precedence Effect].
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Re: Acustica releases Cream - a dreamware approach to console modelling!

Post by ceemusic » Sat May 05, 2018 9:17 pm

The biggest difference I'm noticing are with channels 11 &21.

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