Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted out?

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daystripper
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Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted out?

Post by daystripper » Fri May 19, 2017 2:24 pm

Hi, i've been checking out acustica products for a while. And there is one very big issue that still takes me away from the AA compressors. Look, i like the sound of the compression, i'm fine with recent compressors' action (it's usable), i love that they don't sound digitalish. But they turn my dear high end into a piece of crap, making things sound muddy, sizzle and fatiguing. I've downloaded recent Amethyst 3 and it's still the same stuff. A lot of artifacts in the top end. And it occurs when the actual compression occurs. It's bad enough on a single track, but in the mix, it builds up. You can't have a bunch of noise and artifacts instead of your top end. It will be a shitty mix. Which crosses out all of the advantages that it brings to the table.
So my question is: are you guys looking into this? Should I abandon all hope? My understanding is that this is caused by all the sample switching. And the clicks between them modulate into this high-frequency crap. Can't you guys push it even further up or soften the clicks somehow? Or did you settle for the fatiguing top end noise?
This may come off as a bit harsh, but I didn't really intend it to. Thanks for the attention.

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by Sheikyearbouti » Fri May 19, 2017 3:51 pm

duh, man, really, I have no clue what are you talking about? (and I don't reply here as someone who works with AA, I reply as a user of the plug-ins).

I am not saying that they sound exactly like the HW they are inspired by. I am just saying that what you express is nothing like what I experience. And in the past 10 years I have been using on daily basis HW compressors of all kinds and brands. Often I would pick these to the plug-ins. But really, in 2017 I am finally happy with digital compression.

In fact, my only request for AA would be to look properly into auto attack and auto releases. Perhaps the attack/release curves on some models could also be a little more accurate. But really, the tone??? the HF on most of these babies is just smooth - no clue what are you on about...

Oh, unless you switch off 'insane' mode?
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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by giancarlo » Fri May 19, 2017 9:19 pm

Really no clue... Seriously
I dont understand which sample switching he is speaking about?
Clicking? Maybe he is using with insane mode deactivated... Dunno

daystripper
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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by daystripper » Sat May 20, 2017 1:49 pm

You really don't know about the artifacts in the High end? You may believe it's beyond our hearing range, but it totally affects the sound and how we perceive a sound. Insane mode doesn't solve that problem and i'm talking about with it on. I can make a video about it, go into detail and demonstrate. And if you really don't know what i'm on about, hell, i may even help to improve your product.

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by robschroeder » Sat May 20, 2017 2:36 pm

Please go for it. Highly interested in what you are hearing.

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by giancarlo » Sat May 20, 2017 3:22 pm

Yes very interested.. We never stop learning

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by daystripper » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:58 pm

I know it's been awhile. So, I did try to make a video but the sound crapped out at the capturing stage. Plus it's going to be crapped out even more on youtube, so, I figured, if you don't hear it in the daw, you won't hear it in the video. But I actually can show you what I'm talking about. http://imgur.com/a/Q1dUc So you've got all this junk introduced, it sounds fatiguing, less clear at the top and you'll hear less bottom as a result. And it's going to be introduced at every compression stage in every signal that needs compression so you won't get any separation up there. It's unsuitable for a pro use right now. Will this ever be fixed?

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by mathias » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:47 pm

can you give us the source-file you used for that example? so we can try to reproduce your measurement.
what settings did you use on the amethyst3 compressor?

i never experienced things like that with actual nebula comps, not by hearing nor by measuring (with a good, mastering grade, monitoring setup).
i suspect something else is wrong there ...
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox/x3, tracktion6/7, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6/7(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by mathias » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:54 pm

daystripper wrote:I know it's been awhile. So, I did try to make a video but the sound crapped out at the capturing stage. Plus it's going to be crapped out even more on youtube, so, I figured, if you don't hear it in the daw, you won't hear it in the video ...


i don't understand what you mean by crapped out?
you're a pro (at least you talk like one), so give us an audioexample of what you are hearing.
dry and processed, so we can try to understand what you are talking about and have a real, evidence based discussion.
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox/x3, tracktion6/7, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6/7(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by Thierr7 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:11 pm

There are things to be improved in AA for sure but Comps are getting great for a while and i don't get it either ..

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by daystripper » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:48 am

mathias wrote:can you give us the source-file you used for that example? so we can try to reproduce your measurement.
what settings did you use on the amethyst3 compressor?

i never experienced things like that with actual nebula comps, not by hearing nor by measuring (with a good, mastering grade, monitoring setup).
i suspect something else is wrong there ...
The source is just a bass DI track. You can see it better on it because there isn't much of top end going on. I suppose I can give you the DI bass I used, but you can see it on anything with a spectrum analyzer that goes beyond 20 khz. The compression settings are irrelevant as long as there is some compression going on. I did 3-5db with 8 ratio on that one. And insane mode on. Every acustica compressor I've tested does this, btw. As far as hearing it, if you're not - try turning the volume up quite a bit, and specifically focus your ear on the high end, that insanely high pitched sound, and look for a sort of openness and clarity in there. And a/b with uncompressed signal or with a signal compressed by another compressor, not from acustica. I can't explain it better than that.
I'm not here to discourage people or anything, i want to see what acustica thinks about this. Can this be fixed? Do the think these spikes in the high end are normal?

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by SWANG » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:24 am

mathias wrote:give us an audioexample of what you are hearing.
dry and processed


yes, please do this if you would. i'm very curious to hear this. the visuals are interesting, but audio would be better.

can you upload examples to box.com?

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by granmastertaipan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 am

Hello, to join the topic i make quick test with bass DI file and effectively see artifacts appears from 21.5 KHZ with a max peak at -82DB. But only with pink, no with rose on fet mode, violet and pearl comp (of course try different setting). For my ears that don't changes anything.

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by mathias » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:16 am

daystripper wrote:
mathias wrote:can you give us the source-file you used for that example? so we can try to reproduce your measurement.
what settings did you use on the amethyst3 compressor?

i never experienced things like that with actual nebula comps, not by hearing nor by measuring (with a good, mastering grade, monitoring setup).
i suspect something else is wrong there ...
The source is just a bass DI track. You can see it better on it because there isn't much of top end going on. I suppose I can give you the DI bass I used, but you can see it on anything with a spectrum analyzer that goes beyond 20 khz. The compression settings are irrelevant as long as there is some compression going on. I did 3-5db with 8 ratio on that one. And insane mode on. Every acustica compressor I've tested does this, btw. As far as hearing it, if you're not - try turning the volume up quite a bit, and specifically focus your ear on the high end, that insanely high pitched sound, and look for a sort of openness and clarity in there. And a/b with uncompressed signal or with a signal compressed by another compressor, not from acustica. I can't explain it better than that.
I'm not here to discourage people or anything, i want to see what acustica thinks about this. Can this be fixed? Do the think these spikes in the high end are normal?
as far as amethyst3 is concerned (that was your example), switch on insane-mode and the distortion you are seeing should be gone. there is a little switch called "IN" on the amethyst3 standalone comp, activate that (on the full channelstrip of amethyst3, insanemode is active by default).
at least in my test with a bass di, where i saw the same distortion you were showing, this did the trick.

for demanding sources (like bass) always have insane-mode active on compressors!
system 1: windows 8 32 bit - samplitude prox/x3, tracktion6/7, reaper
system 2: mac osx yosemite - reaper(32+64bit), tracktion6/7(32+64bit)

both systems on: macbook pro (late 2009), core 2 duo 3,06 ghz, 4 gb ram, graphic: nvidia geforce 9600M GT 512 MB

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Re: Will the top end issue with compressors ever be sorted o

Post by RJHollins » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 am

I always work in 'Insane' mode.

same goes with any Acqua plugin.

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