Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

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Shibata
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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Shibata » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:07 am

Henry Olonga
Sorry bro
I did mixing test with 64 and 32bit math on
SONAR X3 Producer (x64) and Reaper 4.591 (x64) with Nebula Server 1.3.681 (x64)
And in all cases I received zero with Null test after.
So, it is placebo. No chance against physics)

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by pleplo » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:56 am

:o

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by jorismak » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:02 am

nebula uses 64bit math internally, yes. That has nothing to do with how your DAW is set and it doesn't matter if it's the 32bit/64bit version of the plugin :).

Nebula's internal precision is always the same (well, maybe the Cuda settings are different, but let's leave them out for now). 32bit/64bit in Sonar means what format the VST plugins will receive. Since most of you record at 24bit or 32bitFP, what Sonar does is scaling it up and passing 64bit FP through all the VST's and it's internal mixer. In theory this means LOADS of headroom and precision. Like I said, how wonder if it actually gains something from 32bit FP.

But as said earlier, the most important thing is that the person using it all is happy with it. If it requires 64bit - placebo or not - then do it. If it gives the artist / producer confidence in the sound quality and the work, then you'll hear that back in the performances and that's worth more than a bit of extra headroom in the science :).

Kinda the same with bands wanting to do stuff on analog tape and without computers in sight (Foo Fighters for example). Is it 'better' quality nice? Hell no. Does it mean they have to buckle down and work four times as hard and you'll notice that because of the concentration the performances are better. YES.

Slash loves analog tape for his guitar tracks, 'something in the sound'. Do you actually notice it in the final mix? Nope. Does he want a complete signal chain that way? Nope, he likes the sound for his tracks.. if it goes into ProTools after the tape machine and gets mixed with autotuned performances of others, he doesn't care :). Because he likes the sound of guitar-on-tape, he has more fun in the recording and that means better albums. That's all that matters :).

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Shibata » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:46 pm

Yes, I totally agree that the process conditions affect the final result. But we are talking about 64 bit internal mixing engine of Sonar and Reaper, which do not affect the conditions of the process, but like Henry said, the sound after mixing with Nebula - get better.

So is not, because: Sonar and Reaper have the ability to customize three parameters
64 bit record
64 bit render
64 bit float point mixing math

I took two tracks of drums and guitar and mix it with AlexB N**e 88RS with the same settings on it.
With 32 and 64 bit engine. And also with render settings^ 32 32, 64 64 and so on.
Insert the results, sweep the phase and get the zero.

For additional testing, did the same thing on Cubase 6 with 32 FP and compare each other between DAW results and get zero)

This is not the difference, when you get the result by recording to tape or to digital DAW because of the procces itself - its just checkbox in the settings.

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Henry Olonga » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:18 am

Hey guys,

PRICE REDUCTION. EVERYTHING NEBULA BACK TO £1 EXCEPT BUNDLES. And I MEAN EVERYTHING!

Shibata. If it doesn't jive you can just ignore it. :) . My point is all about MIXING with DIFFERENT bit depths does something to the sound that subjectively may make things inferior. It is about the difference between REALTIME PLAYBACK and a bounce down of the file. My proposition is that by rendering in 64 bit the bounce down is the same as realtime. I also think that 64 bit math throughout makes sense in that rounding errors can get minimised. That is sound science. I did my tests in Sonar and said that other daws may behave differently mixing different bit depths and sample rates. Some folk can get caught up on null tests and can get quite convinced it is the end of the matter. BUT THIS IS ART and my ears tell me different - I listen to reverb tails, sibilance etc I have a very, very hi resolution monitoring chain and can hear, things that get missed by lower res systems. I can hear low level detail that most monitors miss. Some guys get caught up on the science and in this day and age any tools are usually top notch such that we are splitting hairs on tweaks like this. There's a guy on GS forum who insists that Prismsound Orpheus is not so good compared to his soundcard. Says the clocking is not so good - he tested it nulling against itself ten times and his card measured better. I had to smile. I mean Prismsound make the gear that tests everyone else's clocks and his is a professional piece of gear for sure - but in his eyes his tool was technically better because of the 'infallible' null test. But no deterring the guy, everyone who owns Orpheus got ripped off. Me - I have owned a few high end soundcards RME, Mykerinos, TC Electronic, EMU. They measure with similar specs but wow can the sound vary quite a bit to these ears and folk know this in Pro audio. We act as if small audible differences in analog are super important ( paying tens if thousands for exotic sounds ) and then do the opposite when we use digital tools - actually many digital tools do measure similar but sound different. One of our developers did a test with the Sonitus Eq and some other Eqs many more times expensive. They nulled. But they don't all sound the same do they?

But you are here on a forum where we CAN hear subtle differences and appreciate them to the point where even we invest in a less than perfect workflow because of the results. :)

I noticed you never mentioned what you HEARD - I mean that is a glaring omission in my book. What did it SOUND LIKE? And when you start to add up many tracks across a mix - what did it SOUND LIKE? Come on brother - not one or two tracks here and there. A whole mix. We are arguing about whether there are audible differences and you never said whether you HEARD differences at all - just measurements. I hope this forum is about better hearing and mixing technique. For many folks Nebula does sound better that it is worth jumping through many hoops to get there. I hope I have good hearing left. I can hear everything with my setup. A soft sneeze at the back of a concert hall. It's in the ears. I would not bother telling my customers about a technique I believe can help them get better results if I didn't think it made a difference. You know I believe I can hear how Sonar sounds different to Reaper in realtime. Some cannot. After a bounce the files null. But they sound different in realtime to MY ears. Forums argue forever on this point - whether different DAWS sound different. I think in realtime they do. Perhaps has to do with ASIO buffering implementation. That's way above my level of research . I don't seemingly care about the technical aspects - the tech specs are OFF THE CHARTS in modern pro audio - we have it that good. Nothing is rubbish out there. I just wish for the best sound and if doing something as simple as changing a few boxes can get me closer to an analog sound then I will do it. Perhaps the real placebo is believing that the null test has everything to do with what we ear in the analog domain - using our ears to hear soundwaves.

If this adds nothing to your results then you can walk on by. There may only be a few other mad guys who agree with me, but I don't see how your test adds anything - we don't mix one or two tracks and don't listen to phase scopes. I costs nothing more that HDD space. That's it. It gives you tonnes more headroom in the mix engine and to these ears subjectively gives superior results. Anyway, I think I have flogged this horse enough . . . . carry on :)
Last edited by Henry Olonga on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by indelible » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:35 am

A lot of tech talking but the most important part is here:

PRICE REDUCTION. EVERYTHING NEBULA BACK TO £1 EXCEPT BUNDLES. And I MEAN EVERYTHING!

Thanks Henry

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Martinez » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:01 pm

LOL! I was just wondering about that.

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Martinez » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:02 pm

You're not getting out of the game are you Henry?

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by marcpl » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:17 pm

henry, thanks. this is very generous.

regards,
marco

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by emilieitor » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Thank you Henry!!

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by botus99 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:06 pm

Hate to be that guy, but any estimate as to when the Ess-M-57 will be ready to buy? :oops:
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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by Henry Olonga » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:46 am

Martinez wrote:You're not getting out of the game are you Henry?
No. Just want to stay viable. You cannot compete with free ( pirated ) so I guess dropping the price makes some sense. I did it before actually then went higher. Now - I will leave em dirt cheap. Spread the word and help a brother out!

I am also working on my own album so no sampling till it's done.

I have been called for jury service as well. Hope I don't get a long case.

The main reason I am quiet is that I am also waiting for Giancarlo to give us a 64 bit NAT that supports longer sweeps. That will be my Extreme series. I will redo a few things with 64 bit sampling through every sample rate, ( at the moment most are 32 bit ) will support most major lower sample rates and will do so with the finest gradations in dynamics. It will be a new day in quality , I hope, if we ever get the software as I have felt shackled all this time. I also want to do a dimension series. Fine sounding rooms sampled using my highest end no nonsense chain. Earthworks QTC50 mics, GML pres into convertors. In fine increments from right on the cone out to maybe 20 metres back. More Piano ambience models, more microphone models, more quick mix presets. Same old same old basically but enough to satisfy the hungriest mix engineer. Mixing extensively with my tools has taught me shortcomings and areas for improvement.

If you have any requests, now is the time to start letting me know.

By the way. When I get home next I think I will do a shootout to describe what I am talikng about with this 64 bit nonsense.

SM 57. Sorry about the delay but it falls within the ' I will do it properly when the 64 bit nat arrives' camp. Consider it postponed. It is sitting at home ready to be sampled. As I said in another thread. Numerous distances with a touch of air.

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by RJHollins » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:42 am

Hi Henry,

I ask a request, please ...

The AIR library.
Would be great to have finer gain resolutions.
8-)
i7-5820k, MSI X99A Plus, 16 GIG Ram, Noctua NH-D14, Win-7 Pro [64-bit], Reaper-64

NVC [Nebula Virtual Controllers]

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by BLUESMAN » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:23 pm

AMS RMX 16 would be nice.

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Re: Henry Olonga releases many new products!!!

Post by botus99 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:15 pm

Sounds great Henry. All this info about Nebula 4 is really starting to build some excitement
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N4 - Orange, Blue, Purple, Pearl, Diamond, Ebony, Gold, Navy, Amethyst, Lime, Sand, Pink, Titanium, Aquamarine, Magenta, Coral, Cobalt, Lemon

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