MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

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MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by lordnielson » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:14 pm

This first one is an 11 kernel, 96khz program of my Purple Audio MC77.
Max distortion. All dials at 11. If sonic integrity is your priority then avoid this program.

Nebula isn't able to capture the amount of distortion, nor the complete tonal spectrum of the original unit, but this is probably as close as it gets.

I've noticed some static like noises at times with this program, but since there isn't really any consummate Nat information available I'm not able to analyse nor ameliorate it.

More to come I assume.
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Last edited by lordnielson on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by SWAN » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:29 pm

cool I love driven programs! Nothing like driven analogue gear - and Nebula catches it so well when you switch it in I can hardly believe its a plugin producing that sound that comes out...Man I love that Henry Olonga Power Distortion.
But hey I ought to try this before gushing!
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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by rhodes54 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:47 pm

lordnielson wrote:This first one is an 11 kernel, 96khz program of my Purple Audio MC77.
Max distortion. All dials at 11. If sonic integrity is your priority then avoid this program.

Nebula isn't able to capture the amount of distortion, nor the complete tonal spectrum of the original unit, but this is probably as close as it gets.
It is very good possible that your converters are the cause of the fact that the unit doesn't sound like the original.
Maybe you can try to lend a 'serious' converter like a Prism sound for example. Skip all the Motu/M-audio/RME/etc. stuff. You will lose too much. Although most of the cheaper converters might have a flat/good frequency respons it doesn't say anything about the soundquality.
Most of them sound flat (not dynamic), muddy bass, agressive or dull highs. This is caused by the designs which need to be cheap. Low quality onboard clocks, badly designed power supplies, cheap opamp circuits, etc.

p.s. I don't know what kind of converters you use but I don't mean to run your (and other peoples) converters into the ground. For most people these cheaper cards will do just fine but for a serious job like this quality converters are a must in order to make the perfect 'blueprint'.
It's like taking a picture with your mobile phone (onboard sound card), a €300,- costing Canon (Motu card) and a very serious SLR camera (the Prism sound/DCS or DAD).
The picture taken with the Canon will look very nice until you take the same picture with a serious camera and compare them.

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by rhodes54 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:49 pm

p.s. out of curiosity: How dows it show up in Nebula? As 11 kernel program? I just NEED to figure out why I don't manage to create a 3 kernel program... ;)

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by lordnielson » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:25 pm

rhodes54 wrote:
It is very good possible that your converters are the cause of the fact that the unit doesn't sound like the original.
Maybe you can try to lend a 'serious' converter like a Prism sound for example.
Cheers Rhodes, but I'm using a Lynx L22 which I believe a lot of people rate just below or rather close to Apogee stuff but definately quite a bit higher than RME, Motu etc.

It's simply that Nebula has a problem with full-on distortion like a very driven 1176 will exhibit. Similar to the problems it has capturing compression. All in good time I'm sure. But I'll probably keep experimenting and maybe find a loophole somewhere that'll allow for some more dirt.

The programs show up in Nebula as 11 kernel 96 khz.

Gotta go find that Olonga distortion now :)

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by ngarjuna » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:29 pm

rhodes54 wrote:
lordnielson wrote:This first one is an 11 kernel, 96khz program of my Purple Audio MC77.
Max distortion. All dials at 11. If sonic integrity is your priority then avoid this program.

Nebula isn't able to capture the amount of distortion, nor the complete tonal spectrum of the original unit, but this is probably as close as it gets.
It is very good possible that your converters are the cause of the fact that the unit doesn't sound like the original.
Maybe you can try to lend a 'serious' converter like a Prism sound for example. Skip all the Motu/M-audio/RME/etc. stuff. You will lose too much. Although most of the cheaper converters might have a flat/good frequency respons it doesn't say anything about the soundquality.
Most of them sound flat (not dynamic), muddy bass, agressive or dull highs. This is caused by the designs which need to be cheap. Low quality onboard clocks, badly designed power supplies, cheap opamp circuits, etc.

p.s. I don't know what kind of converters you use but I don't mean to run your (and other peoples) converters into the ground. For most people these cheaper cards will do just fine but for a serious job like this quality converters are a must in order to make the perfect 'blueprint'.
It's like taking a picture with your mobile phone (onboard sound card), a €300,- costing Canon (Motu card) and a very serious SLR camera (the Prism sound/DCS or DAD).
The picture taken with the Canon will look very nice until you take the same picture with a serious camera and compare them.
I don't know if you're making this case specifically as it applies to NAT (I honestly can't comment) but I do think the entire industry has gone way overboard in comparing high end and more middle end converters. If the difference was so huge any one of a number of AB/X tests would have made this abundantly obvious, but it never is; after the smoke clears people are generally about as unsure about their hypotheses as they were before testing. It always ends up coming back to "I don't care what the test proved, I hear the difference," which is fine but it fails to take into account the rather MASSIVE impact of expectation biases and other cognitive prejudices. I'm sure there are differences, specifically in the analog components of many of these converters, but I think the comparison of a webcam to a professional shooter is a pretty big exaggeration. We're talking about differences that would null to a rather low level.

Out of curiosity, lordnielson, have you ever checked out the 1176 saturation programs in the RASS? Just wondering how it compares to those; I won't be able to check this program out until I get home later.

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by lordnielson » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:57 pm

ngarjuna wrote:
Out of curiosity, lordnielson, have you ever checked out the 1176 saturation programs in the RASS? Just wondering how it compares to those; I won't be able to check this program out until I get home later.
I've never encountered any 1176 programs before so I've no idea how this compares.
I'm not even quite sure what exactly my program does. It certainly does something when applied in series or across more tracks. It adds bite to the transients or refreshes them and brings them forward. Haven't had time to use it much myself but there's some heft and dirt for sure.

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by ngarjuna » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:38 pm

lordnielson wrote:
ngarjuna wrote:
Out of curiosity, lordnielson, have you ever checked out the 1176 saturation programs in the RASS? Just wondering how it compares to those; I won't be able to check this program out until I get home later.
I've never encountered any 1176 programs before so I've no idea how this compares.
I'm not even quite sure what exactly my program does. It certainly does something when applied in series or across more tracks. It adds bite to the transients or refreshes them and brings them forward. Haven't had time to use it much myself but there's some heft and dirt for sure.
Very cool, can't wait to check it out. I was always amazed at how much the RASS programs sound like they're compressing (the effect on transients you are describing) considering they actually aren't compressing anything. I think the ones in RASS are mostly old units so I suspect yours might sound a little different. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by scooter » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:13 pm

Thanks
Testing it out now
Hmmmm.. but I can't really hear it doing anything.


Edit: well on second thought... maybe it is adding a little top-end grit and a low-end womp,after flipping the polarity for a null test

Edit 2: Actually, this preset isn't doing anything, that I can tell.
I loaded NebulaPro3 Reverb with out any presets loaded and rendered a mix-down. When I flipped the polarity to compare it to the original track, it had the same low-end bump and high-end lift. What gives? Could this be an error in the NebulaPro3 Reverb programming? Shouldn't the original track null with the file that had NebulaPro3 Reverb loaded without a preset/library loaded?

EDIT 3: Actually, this could have been a ReaperX64 issue.
I'm not getting the same results. And I can hear the distortion. This preset really makes transients explode unpredictably.
Last edited by scooter on Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by everbeatz » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanx a lot!! ;)

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by lordnielson » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:37 pm

scooter wrote:Thanks
Testing it out now
Hmmmm.. but I can't really hear it doing anything.

EDIT 3: Actually, this could have been a ReaperX64 issue.
I'm not getting the same results. And I can hear the distortion. This preset really makes transients explode unpredictably.
Cool man. I was gonna suggest that you take a really low squarewave and you'll notice the effect. Or a couple or more in series on a soloed track (you'll really start to hear the actual "sound" of the original unit that way).
It has a culminative effect that I like on snr, oh, bass and vox so far. Though this is saturation from an 1176, not from a nice reel2reel unit so I guess you have to find out where it works the best in a mix.

ALSO OF IMPORTANCE (to everybody here)

If you go into EDIT -> GLOB you'll see that I attenuated the Pad In by almost 3db. What I then assume is that you should be able to add up to 3db with in input knob (attenuate the same with the output knob) to reach the level of the original. I did it to get a more widely usable program that doesn't kill the source. But go crazy if you must 8-)

Cheers

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by paulrussell » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:09 am

Megaupload Download Limit Exceeded

If you need hosting space/bandwidth for this I can help you, for free. PM me directly

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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by Mercado_Negro » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:30 am

paulrussell wrote:Megaupload Download Limit Exceeded

If you need hosting space/bandwidth for this I can help you, for free. PM me directly
Hi Paul,

Peter (lordnielson) created an account at dropbox and all his programs are there. Here's the link:

http://db.tt/gZGzOP
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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by enriquesilveti » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:46 am

lordnielson wrote:This first one is an 11 kernel, 96khz program of my Purple Audio MC77. Max distortion. All dials at 11. If sonic integrity is your priority then avoid this program.

Nebula isn't able to capture the amount of distortion, nor the complete tonal spectrum of the original unit, but this is probably as close as it gets.

I've noticed some static like noises at times with this program, but since there isn't really any consummate Nat information available I'm not able to analyse nor ameliorate it.
Hello lordnielson. Thanks for share your EPs. Higher kernels (from 9 to 11) can corrupt the lower kernels due the small SNR. You MUST first find which is the maximum kernels that you can capture before get a corrupted higher kernels emulation preset. Does depends your sampling ring and the device under test (DUC). You could try repeats in NAT for get a better SNR.

Velinas, Mirco, Micheal and AlexB are expert in high kernel Preamp and EQ sampling you can send a PM to them...
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Re: MC77 (1176) Saturation Programs

Post by lordnielson » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:23 am

enriquesilveti wrote: Hello lordnielson. Thanks for share your EPs. Higher kernels (from 9 to 11) can corrupt the lower kernels due the small SNR. You MUST first find which is the maximum kernels that you can capture before get a corrupted higher kernels emulation preset. Does depends your sampling ring and the device under test (DUC). You could try repeats in NAT for get a better SNR.

Velinas, Mirco, Micheal and AlexB are expert in high kernel Preamp and EQ sampling you can send a PM to them...
Thanks Enrique.

I did start out with 3 repeats on the program but it gave me a seriously warped freq response. could've just been a corrupted sampling session I suppose, so maybe I'll try again at some point. It's been my plan the whole time to make a program with less kernels (I wouldn't need to sample it again for that)

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