Page 1 of 3

AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:18 pm
by Mplay
First let me say I love AlexB libraries and still use them all the time, but the libraries have a low end ripple in the frequency spectrum that makes especially stacking libraries unusable for full mixes and other bass heavy material. I now use workarounds to avoid these problems, but ideally the libraries would need fixing. I would love some insight from the community to get an idea how this is viewed

Edit: Seems AlexB is updating his libraries, which is great news. Just want to add as well that the issue is not exclusive to AlexB, but as some other popular devs had been able to avoid the ripple, it was his libraries that got focused on in this topic

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:07 pm
by plexus
I have a lot of AlexB's libraries and I am aware of and acknowledge the low end ripple problem. I've even reached out to DDMF for validation of Plugin Doctor in this regard. There is no issue with Plugin Doctor - the ripple is real.

However your poll choices don't match my use of the libraries: I use them but without workarounds - I use them now knowing what the effects might be - if there are too many audible artifacts I discontinue use and find other tools. To my ears the ripple causes a kind of "puffy, pillow-y" low end.

I wish he'd stop making excuses for the ripple and fix the libraries. We know from TimP that this can be done.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:21 am
by martijnvandongen
Bought the German Master Console SP79 and noticed this ripple too. Had some stuff on my list for BF, mainly EQs but will drop them from my list.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:54 pm
by darkskar
Mplay wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:18 pm
First let me say I love AlexB libraries and still use them all the time, but the libraries have a low end ripple in the frequency spectrum that makes especially stacking libraries unusable for full mixes and other bass heavy material. I now use workarounds to avoid these problems, but ideally the libraries would need fixing. I would love some insight from the community to get an idea how this is viewed
Hi there!
I love the AlexB libraries (specially consoles) and have no idea of what the low end ripple is.
I don't speak very good english but I try to understand: What is exactly the low end ripple problem? What are the workarounds to avoid it?

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:25 pm
by plexus
darkskar wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:54 pm
Hi there!
I love the AlexB libraries (specially consoles) and have no idea of what the low end ripple is.
I don't speak very good english but I to understand:

What is exactly the low end ripple problem?
What are the workarounds to avoid it?
With certain programs the low end has a wavey frequency response. You can see an example of this in the screen shot in this post:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=7784

Here is one method to try and mitigate it:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=7899

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:39 am
by darkskar
Thanks for the reply, plexus, I will investigate a bit about it
Cheers!

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:17 am
by AlexB
Unfortunately this trick fix the graphics but not the sound, as I have written on a newsletter... i.e. the resulted sound is not close at the sampled hardware. Sorry.

I'm working at this issue BUT in a different way than other developers or forum trickers. 8-)

PS. About stacking and how to use correctly the libraries... PLEASE READ the user manual.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:43 am
by plexus
AlexB wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:17 am
Unfortunately this trick fix the graphics but not the sound, as I have written on a newsletter... i.e. the resulted sound is not close at the sampled hardware. Sorry.

I'm working at this issue BUT in a different way than other developers or forum trickers. 8-)

PS. About stacking and how to use correctly the libraries... PLEASE READ the user manual.
Don't believe this. There is no way that low end ripple is "ok". It's right there in front of you - the abberations are right there. It's not a problem with the analysis tool - it's a problem with the Nebula libraries.

Here is an example from MFC G.Buss Clean. These sonic abberations are in many AlexB and others libraries. TimP has put effort into cleaning this up his libraries. You may want to try demo programs if you can get them to see how they perform.

Frequency response
Image


Phase
Image

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:19 pm
by AlexB
plexus wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:43 am
AlexB wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:17 am
Unfortunately this trick fix the graphics but not the sound, as I have written on a newsletter... i.e. the resulted sound is not close at the sampled hardware. Sorry.

I'm working at this issue BUT in a different way than other developers or forum trickers. 8-)

PS. About stacking and how to use correctly the libraries... PLEASE READ the user manual.
Don't believe this. There is no way that low end ripple is "ok". It's right there in front of you - the abberations are right there. It's not a problem with the analysis tool - it's a problem with the Nebula libraries.

Here is an example from MFC G.Buss Clean. These sonic abberations are in many AlexB and others libraries. TimP has put effort into cleaning this up his libraries. You may want to try demo programs if you can get them to see how they perform.

.......
:?: :?: :?:
I speak for MY libraries. What works for other devs it would be able to not work for mine.
As said: increasing FREQD made the sound far from the sampled hardware. I'm working in another way to improve the audio quality and suppress the ripple. i.e. not only by calibrate the FREQD but by improving the sampling quality also.
It takes A LOT of time but the libraries will be updated soon. ;)

Sorry, I don't use the forums for some reasons... I haven't time and looking above it seems that I'm not able to write and read correctly. Sorry.
I give a very quick email service for support. Please use it if you need. Thanks 8-)

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:50 am
by thefastaction
AlexB wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:19 pm
plexus wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:43 am
AlexB wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:17 am
Unfortunately this trick fix the graphics but not the sound, as I have written on a newsletter... i.e. the resulted sound is not close at the sampled hardware. Sorry.

I'm working at this issue BUT in a different way than other developers or forum trickers. 8-)

PS. About stacking and how to use correctly the libraries... PLEASE READ the user manual.
Don't believe this. There is no way that low end ripple is "ok". It's right there in front of you - the abberations are right there. It's not a problem with the analysis tool - it's a problem with the Nebula libraries.

Here is an example from MFC G.Buss Clean. These sonic abberations are in many AlexB and others libraries. TimP has put effort into cleaning this up his libraries. You may want to try demo programs if you can get them to see how they perform.

.......
:?: :?: :?:
I speak for MY libraries. What works for other devs it would be able to not work for mine.
As said: increasing FREQD made the sound far from the sampled hardware. I'm working in another way to improve the audio quality and suppress the ripple. i.e. not only by calibrate the FREQD but by improving the sampling quality also.
It takes A LOT of time but the libraries will be updated soon. ;)

Sorry, I don't use the forums for some reasons... I haven't time and looking above it seems that I'm not able to write and read correctly. Sorry.
I give a very quick email service for support. Please use it if you need. Thanks 8-)
:D That’s great news!

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:31 am
by plexus
AlexB wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:17 am
Unfortunately this trick fix the graphics but not the sound, as I have written on a newsletter... i.e. the resulted sound is not close at the sampled hardware. Sorry.

I'm working at this issue BUT in a different way than other developers or forum trickers. 8-)

PS. About stacking and how to use correctly the libraries... PLEASE READ the user manual.
AlexB, my mistake. I apologize. I misunderstood your post above. I am reading it now with fresh eyes and I see what you are saying. You are talking about the method some have used to fix the ripple. I totally misunderstood you, sorry! I will leave my post below as-is so people can follow along.

I see what you mean now by "tricksters" etc. That makes sense! One of the proposed solutions to the ripple to manipulate the length of the kernel (sample). This can reduce ripple but then you are, I think, reducing the bandwidth and/or resolution of the sample. So what AlexB is saying makes sense.

It's good to know you are working on a solution to the ripple. Your libraries sound very nice except for, what I hear as, a soft unfocused bottom end. Since I don't have a corresponding AlexB library without to ripple to compare it to, I can only hypothesize that its because of the ripple. I don't hear the same unfocused sound with libraries that are ripple free.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:22 pm
by Kiddo
Thanks Alex, waiting patiently for your updates! :)

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:14 am
by leckel1996
This is very exciting. Already love S432, MMeQ, and A5M but would feel much better about using multiple instances in a mastering situation knowing nothing weird is happening to the frequency response.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:34 pm
by emilieitor
An analog equalizer is not the same as a digital equalizer where the curves are perfect, in the analog equalizer, especially the vintage ones, they are irregular and imperfect, as we can see in the Pultec equalizers, for example here:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-p ... for-pultec

Where a low boost shelf causes a subtractive equalization in mids, or the same 1073 here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/N**e-1073n

Where it is observed that the curve eq is irregular and not linear.

So, the important thing is what the ear dictates and not the graphics. Always.

Re: AlexB libraries and low end ripple

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:07 pm
by plexus
emilieitor wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:34 pm
An analog equalizer is not the same as a digital equalizer where the curves are perfect, in the analog equalizer, especially the vintage ones, they are irregular and imperfect, as we can see in the Pultec equalizers, for example here:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-p ... for-pultec

Where a low boost shelf causes a subtractive equalization in mids, or the same 1073 here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/N**e-1073n

Where it is observed that the curve eq is irregular and not linear.

So, the important thing is what the ear dictates and not the graphics. Always.
If the N4 program matches the hardware, then the N4 program is fine. If the N4 program has abberations compared to the hardware and can be measured, it is not acceptable.

I can hear the effects of low end N4 ripple. It makes the bottom end less focused and "pillow-y". You devs need to fix this and stop making excuses for it. It would not be acceptable in hardware and it is not acceptable in software, unless it's something the hardware is doing as well.