Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by babiuk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:48 am

wagz wrote:
1. APEX tape ( I need to research the machines and tape they used @ Gold Star)
2. (This is for predelay.) A simple, clean sample delay or delay plugin with zero feedback
3. Tube console LINE IN or a tube mic preamp
4. Henry O. ribbon mic - something that cuts off everything above 8khz
5. Cupwise's Chambers of Myth
6. Tube console FX bus
I use to use a similar chain for emulating that echo chamber. The GS desk was one similar to the famous green U*******l A***o tube console, same pres indeed. It was 12 inputs I can remember and it had a special routing allowing to mix the dry signal with the one coming from chamber. We din't have any console like this nebulized, just the UA 610 pres from Gemini but they are sampled not from vintage units. Other choice for tube console is Michael's Bogen, not as first row but at least tube 50s/early 60s desk. Another choice is Eric's Langevin console which I have used and got happy results.

The idea is tho send a signal delayed to the chamber and they used an ampex 350 which we have on Apex collection, so the first thing I use is a 350 preset from Apex, I use the 7,5 one which shows a great highs loss adding a highs lifter after with Pearl2. Then I put a 115ms delay which is the time at 7,5 between the Ampex's heads(it was a mess to calculate but it is the number and it sounds so good). Then I cut on 6000 or 8000 and 500, listening for the specific song of course but the freqs are close to them. Then it comes your choice for echo chamber. And the resulting signal is what I think came out from their echo chamber and I use it for mixing with the dry signal.

I have to mention that I have just one channel with that chain and every track is sent to it so in my chamber I have the mix of all of them together. I mean lnstruments, for voice I repeat the proccess.
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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by babiuk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:05 am

.. and as for Gold Star craziness - visiting the parking lot on which GS once stood, while on your honeymoon, takes the cake! :-) .. that's dedication for sure
Haha... It gets better if I tell you that I am from Spain and mainly the honeymoon was all about visiting Western, Sunset, Original Sound... All the 50/60s studios. They were so kind to receiving us and show us the studios, they even were happy to receive visitors who loved the history of the studios, some guys were so young they didn't know pet sounds but they know it was something important and they were so happy to be part of it now, it was amazing. They have a full row of fairchilds! The only one not doing it was Capitol, they were indeed very hostile and there was no agreement for visiting them, anyway I went to take a picture on the gates(I mean outside on the street) and a giant security soldier took us off on a very bad manner.
And the best of the trip was visiting Sean Bonniwell of the Music Machine band at his home, it was a dream and I have an infinite love for my wife for the eternity! Hehe
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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by wagz » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:10 am

babiuk wrote:
I use to use a similar chain for emulating that echo chamber. The GS desk was one similar to the famous green U*******l A***o tube console, same pres indeed. It was 12 inputs I can remember and it had a special routing allowing to mix the dry signal with the one coming from chamber. We din't have any console like this nebulized, just the UA 610 pres from Gemini but they are sampled not from vintage units. Other choice for tube console is Michael's Bogen, not as first row but at least tube 50s/early 60s desk. Another choice is Eric's Langevin console which I have used and got happy results.

The idea is tho send a signal delayed to the chamber and they used an ampex 350 which we have on Apex collection, so the first thing I use is a 350 preset from Apex, I use the 7,5 one which shows a great highs loss adding a highs lifter after with Pearl2. Then I put a 115ms delay which is the time at 7,5 between the Ampex's heads(it was a mess to calculate but it is the number and it sounds so good). Then I cut on 6000 or 8000 and 500, listening for the specific song of course but the freqs are close to them. Then it comes your choice for echo chamber. And the resulting signal is what I think came out from their echo chamber and I use it for mixing with the dry signal.

I have to mention that I have just one channel with that chain and every track is sent to it so in my chamber I have the mix of all of them together. I mean lnstruments, for voice I repeat the proccess.
Thank you so much for the tips, babiuk!!!! I'll definitely try these. Also, I've tried to use the E*I Road preamp and the Thermionik Earlybird from AlexB. I'm gonna look into Eric's Langevin.

You said,"Then I cut on 6000 or 8000 and 500, listening for the specific song of course but the freqs are close to them." Are you using a self or bell for the cut on the highs? Or, do you just let APEX handle highs reduction and add highs back to taste with an eq? Also, do you do any HP or LP filtering on te send. In the past, I've usually done something like put a 10khz LPF and HP at 600hz.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by babiuk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:32 pm

Hi wagz,
I have to look that earlybird from alexb, I can't remember what it is about.

Excuse my not clear comments, I was meaning HP and LP of course. It is common to read that Abbey Road used HP and LP filters on 600 and 10K of course. Anyway the Recording The Beatles book speaks about 6K if I remember well. I said I use 6k or 8k or any other freq according to the song I do so it sounds better for me so I don't have an exact value, neither for low cut.

I would like to say that my sonic goals are not the goals of the most of people here, I am always rrying to get a 50s or 60s sound so I customize every parameter in order to get a closer sound to it. Sometimes 8k gives me a feeling that it sounds like this and sometimes I can go higher or even lower, the same for low shelf. So I am not a fixed solution, I would like to set it fixed but I still have not the grial for me on this.

The Ampex preset from Apex produces a very deep(veery) cut on highs and I use Pearl2 to add highs back, yes. Still I find the highs (even with the Pearl2 help) are not as cool as I would like but the results on the lows and mids are so nice for me that I keep on using this Ampex. It gets a so much clear low/mid sound, it eliminates every non human friendlynsound, hehe.
The other Ampex 351 presets cut the lows and you can fix it with Pearl but I prefer the high loss fixed with pearl. I would love a intermediate calue between the high loss preset and the low loss preset, but we have what we have
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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by xabilon » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:28 pm

In Abbey Road, in the 60s, they used the R135 and R127 on the sends to the chamber, to accentuate some frequencies (R135=8kHz, R127=2,7/3,5/10kHz).
DamyFX has nebula presets for these peak filters :
http://damyfx.altervista.org/nebula-pro ... ation.html

The fixed filter defore the chamber was 600 HP and 10K LP. At that time, there was A LOT of high loss, due to the tape and the bouncings between tracks. Everything was recorded ultra-bright for that reason.
AnalogObsession sampled the Pultec filters, they could be used for filtering the sends, but I think Tunca doesn't sell nebula libraries anymore.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Cupwise » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:29 pm

wow, hp at 600hz seems kinda crazy

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by beingmf3 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:13 pm

Cupwise wrote:wow, hp at 600hz seems kinda crazy
Really? I often use that HP (12dB, I guess, not sure). Somewhere between 250 and 600 has become my standard, so to speak, but many projects I mix just want to be drowned in reverb. More than the average 2017 mix :)
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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Cupwise » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:22 pm

well i think nowadays its a personal taste thing and also depends on the rest of the mix. just seems a bit surprising to me that they used a fixed filter at 600hz always.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by xabilon » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:08 pm

Taken from the "Recording the Beatles" book, about the RS106 "Echo Control Unit" Bandpass passive filter :
« Echo chambers don't like lower frequencies being pumped into them (..) it can produce a very unpleasant boomy sound in your mix (..) so it was common practice to have a HP/LP filter following the echo send circuit of the mixing console.
(..) the typical setting was to cut the bass at 600 Hz, and cut the top at 10,000 Hz »

Well, maybe the Abbey Road echo chambers were really boomy and needed to cut all these low frequencies.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Cupwise » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:25 pm

Yeah i'm sure they had reasons. The bright version of the 'lancelot's tomb' chamber in this library is pretty bright and is almost like there's a hp probably around 600hz or even higher. It's not really a high pass but the lower frequencies are really low. The freq response is at something like -12dB around 100hz and climbs up to about +12dB at 7khz. Not to say it necessarily shares any of the other qualities of the chamber/setup Abbey Road used but it's definitely very bright.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by RE301 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:07 pm

With Abbey Road, it seems many studio practices in the day were imposed from on high / the head office in the form of almost East-bloc style diktats. One infamous rule concerned kick drum mic placement - Beatles engineer Geoff Emerick describes requiring written permission from the management in order to place the mic closer than the prescribed minimum 2 feet: http://tapeop.com/interviews/57/geoff-emerick/

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by RE301 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:22 pm

On chambers - the dub-style reverb shots on rimshots here (astonishing for 1967) are illuminating in how a classic chamber (Western? United?) just lights up in response to the input... 'Summer's Daughter' from the Fifth Dimension. I absolutely love this album, even though its over the top at times. Represents the absolute finest of that LA pop era with the Wrecking Crew, Jimmy Webb etc - I actually reach for this album more on the home hifi than Pet Sounds (!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci1sRrLuHZ8

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Cupwise » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:47 am

i've been testing different ways to make lite versions of the programs and so far it isn't working out. i've removed all kerns but one, and that makes no noticeable difference i can detect, with my cpu use. i've also tried removing almost all of the dynamic steps sampled so all that's left are essentially static samples. that made no difference either, which really kind of surprised me. i have no idea how that makes any sense.

i have one other thing to try out but i think it might change the sound of the lite programs a little too much.

honestly i feel that these reverbs already use much less cpu than most of my others, because they aren't so long. so i think the cpu use is pretty good by comparison. i think anyone having trouble using the reverbs should try doubling the value of the 'dspbuffer' setting in their nebula .xml. (maybe even doubling it twice). it does give you extra latency but it should bring cpu use down.

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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Avgatzeblouz » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:40 pm

So I bought these a few days ago... They are now everywhere !! These are the most colorful and alive chambers I heard ! When I put R2 or TSAR-1 or Ultrareverb, they sound flat in comparison. Great great great release, Tim !
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Re: Cupwise Real Spaces - Chambers Part A - Chambers of Myth

Post by Cupwise » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:32 am

thanks! glad you like them 8-)

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