S-609A BusCom+Limiter HUGE UPDATE (formerly Smooth609)

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Cupwise
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S-609A BusCom+Limiter HUGE UPDATE (formerly Smooth609)

Post by Cupwise » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:01 pm

it's not actually released yet. but a free demo program is. it should work with free nebula. get it here.

when full release is ready, i'll post update in this thread.


update- both the comp and limiter (see latest posts for info on the limiter) have now been released. check them out:

comp
limiter
Last edited by Cupwise on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Melon_Jack » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:58 pm

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
33609 CLONE FINALLY!!
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Sorry for my bad english =))

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by ngarjuna » Wed May 01, 2013 1:18 am

Subscribing for the inevitable announcement...

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by richie43 » Wed May 01, 2013 3:25 am

ngarjuna wrote:Subscribing for the inevitable announcement...

Me next!! :shock: :D :mrgreen:
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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by ericus » Wed May 01, 2013 3:28 am

The demo is...how can I say...yummy? :mrgreen:

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by vicnestE » Wed May 01, 2013 4:36 am

Thank you for the demo.

The default setting is tasty. High frequency is great at TIMED mode.
But when the release is low, bass heavy stuff seem to distort easily. Is it caused by the fact that the compressor sounds fatter??

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Cupwise » Wed May 01, 2013 5:19 am

vicnestE wrote:Thank you for the demo.

The default setting is tasty. High frequency is great at TIMED mode.
But when the release is low, bass heavy stuff seem to distort easily. Is it caused by the fact that the compressor sounds fatter??
yeah i forgot to mention that.

ok with the attack, the default position the program loads gives the attack timing like the hardware i used (it doesn't allow attack adjustment). it's labeled in nebula as 5ms although it could be a bit faster than that in reality. that means that the settings above and below that are timings that i added in/allowed for, which don't really represent the hardware's ability anymore. but we are just talking about timing, it's not like going away from that default setting will totally destroy all remnants of authenticity to the hardware. further, in my online research for the unit, i've found a few places where people were talking about the attack time on their units, which they actually measured and said was around 20ms or more. this could mean-
a) the unit i used had a faster attack than an average piece, for whatever reason.
b) the unit(s) those guys had were slower than average.
c) a bit of both

it's hard to say because i couldn't really seem to find much direct mention of the attack time or where it 'should' be at, online anywhere. the fact still remains that the default setting on these programs reflects the hardware i used. i've allowed up to a little over 20ms to allow for the possibility that mine was for some reason faster than an average unit. i'm thinking about increasing that to a little over 30ms.

the fastest attack setting, i set to be 0ms, but of course nebula can't have instant attack unless you use look ahead to compensate for the prog rate time at least. also, since this is a feedback compressor, that also will prevent it from being instant, regardless of how much look ahead you add. as i mentioned in the txt for the demo, the look ahead might not even be doing anything here (due to the feedback detection) anyway. i'm about to test to be sure, and if not i'm removing it. anyway, the actual hardware is not instant so this is NOT a flaw.

now to the release time. the hardware can be adjusted, between 100ms to 1500ms. that's represented here (demo version is limited up to i think 400ms though). i've also allowed for faster release times, going down to being close to instant. i didn't allow it to go all the way down to 0ms because obviously there was bad distortion at that point. this is pretty much true of about any software comp out there. if it allows you to set it at 0ms you will likely get nasty sounds out, especially with bass. so i didn't allow all the way down to 0ms, but somewhere close. i still noticed distortion with some inputs at the fastest speed, but in some cases i liked it. :D

the programs all load at 100ms (including the demo), which is the fastest speed you can get with the hardware. if you go below that you are going into territory that doesn't really represent the hardware, but again that's not necessarily a bad thing. as with any compressor, equalizer, etc, whether plug-in or even hardware, you can't always expect better or even good results out of it, with any type of input and any possible settings on the thing. it's a commonly known thing that really fast release times (under 50ms) on probably any comp with bass will lead to distortion.

long story short- if you get bad sounding distortion from using a fast release...

dont do that! ;)

and again, since those times below 100ms release are more extreme 'what if' speeds that i allowed, which were not possible with the unit, it's not a flaw of the program's ability to recreate the hardware if they distort. it's just that i allowed extreme settings which can and will produce distortion on some inputs, as happens with compression in general. but sometimes they might sound good and be useful, as i found in my testing, which is why i kept them in.

one other thing- if you increase the input slowly with a signal that has some low bass, you will find that it starts to distort the bass more and more at a point (with any release speed), bringing it up a fair amount in level. the demo is only 3k so it's even more pronounced with the 10k version, and the actual hardware did this also. you can see people discussing the low freqs distorting with these things if you look. it could be useful in some cases...

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by vicnestE » Wed May 01, 2013 5:55 am

Thank you for the detail clarification.
Yeah, I think 10k version is definitely a must buy :)

Also the section talks about AHEAD in the "smooth-609A-free-demo-info.txt" is useful.

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by jeffbdavis » Wed May 01, 2013 7:10 am

Very cool! Congrats, Tim :D

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by david1103 » Wed May 01, 2013 11:05 am

This is going to be a very exciting release!

With regards to attack and release. I have not yet used NAT so don't quite understand how it is working.

So if the compressor starts with its default 100ms release it is 100% authentic to the hardware, but if we move it down to 50ms it is not. I get that part, but is there something different in the 'quality/shape' of the release at non standard timings? Is the 100ms using a measurement but the 50ms just some kind of coded approximation?

Not sure if that makes sense, put another way, is there a quality difference in setting it from 100ms to 95ms? Is the 95ms interpolated?

The super high quality mode sounds incredible! Without giving any secrets away, is there a new breakthrough that enables us to have 'dirty/character' compression without the dreaded Nebula artifacts? I was under the impression that your new techniques were only for ultra clean compression?

Can't wait for this release! :D

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Tim Petherick » Wed May 01, 2013 12:17 pm

I see you have taken the fade lengths down in the kern page!

Something thats in my release , yes it works well.



:D

And almost the same amount of samples thats a bit of a coinsodence is it not?

I'm not trying to start anything here just a bit baffled!!

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Cupwise » Wed May 01, 2013 12:38 pm

david1103 wrote: So if the compressor starts with its default 100ms release it is 100% authentic to the hardware, but if we move it down to 50ms it is not. I get that part, but is there something different in the 'quality/shape' of the release at non standard timings? Is the 100ms using a measurement but the 50ms just some kind of coded approximation?
no. it's the same shape/quality, only faster.
david1103 wrote: Not sure if that makes sense, put another way, is there a quality difference in setting it from 100ms to 95ms? Is the 95ms interpolated?
no there isn't any interpolation involved in attack/release times.
david1103 wrote: Without giving any secrets away, is there a new breakthrough that enables us to have 'dirty/character' compression without the dreaded Nebula artifacts? I was under the impression that your new techniques were only for ultra clean compression?
well i don't know if i would call it a new breakthrough, but i try to dedicate some additional time to experimenting/testing possible areas i might be able to improve each time i do one of these. this time i came up with the SHQ additional presets which i have to kind of fine-tune to prevent artifacts, and i also have to calibrate their attack/release timings separately, so it's not just a simple switch from freqd to timed. this is a more characterful comp than i've done before for sure. and i did make a comment to that effect back when i released rayphlex, but i think i was just saying that i didn't know. rayphlex was made from a pair of really clean (distortion and noise-wise) compressors. at that point it was the only comp thing i had made so i didn't know if my techniques would work with others. there were a couple of reasons i thought they might not, but i feel confident about the results i've got with this latest one.

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Cupwise » Wed May 01, 2013 12:47 pm

timp wrote:I see you have taken the fade lengths down in the kern page!

Something thats in my release , yes it works well.



:D

And almost the same amount of samples thats a bit of a coinsodence is it not?

I'm not trying to start anything here just a bit baffled!!
heh, sorry timp, i actually haven't had time to check out your latest comp release. it looks promising though. the reason i've removed fadeout times from these programs is because i've mass-edited and applied quick fade-outs to the impulses directly, since it gives me more control that way. i figured then that having nebula do an additional fade out would be redundant. also, i don't know if i really trust nebula's fade-out a whole lot. i've noticed before that it seems somehow a bit wonky with reverbs where you might want to use the fadeout to shorten the lengths for a custom reverb. somehow when i've done that the fadeout just didn't seem 'proper' to me.

and my demo has lengths of just over 10ms, because that's the longest you can have them while still getting a prog rate of 2.6ms (with 96khz version). it's not really a coincidence that your lengths would be similar... since 10ms happens to be the default length that acustica's NAT templates are set up to provide for comps. 10ms is what almost all neb comps have for their lengths...

i don't believe that either the removal of fadeouts or the particular kern lengths i've used here have anything to do with improving nebula comp behavior either.

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Tim Petherick » Wed May 01, 2013 1:01 pm

all in all fade outs cause phasing and in theory slow things down.

It appears that im blocked from your website now

Exploit blackhole 2704

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Re: Smooth 609A BusComp+Limiter, Nebula - Cupwise FX

Post by Cupwise » Wed May 01, 2013 1:07 pm

timp wrote:all in all fade outs cause phasing and in theory slow things down.

It appears that im blocked from your website now

Exploit blackhole 2704
i don't know where all of this is coming from timp. i don't know anything about your fadeout 'theory', but i haven't noticed any phasing. none of the people who have happily been using my stuff for the past couple of years seem to have noticed any either.

i also have no idea how to block someone from my website. as you can tell by looking at it (my site), web stuff is not really my forte. ;)

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