0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by faun2500 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm

I thought you could raise the input over 0db and then lower the output to stop nebula clipping.

This is what I do to drive the r2r & tape booster.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by yr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:32 pm

faun2500 wrote:I thought you could raise the input over 0db and then lower the output to stop nebula clipping.

This is what I do to drive the r2r & tape booster.
I think if your input signal level goes above 0 dBFS you are basically clipping Nebula (even if you are lowering the output). If the peaks are very short you might not notice it, but you are basically adding digital distortion to the signal.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by faun2500 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:35 pm

I don't think that's true. But I would be happy if others chimed in and proved me wrong. :P

I don't get digital distortion unless the 'clip light' goes on but by lowering the output it stays off.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by yr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:52 pm

This is how the TB+ 7/8 preset looks like when using a +6 dBFS signal. Lowering the output level has no effect on the shape of this frequency response:
TB +6dBFS a.png
TB +6dBFS a.png (30.8 KiB) Viewed 1354 times
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by faun2500 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:51 pm

I wouldn't of thought it would have any effect. Lowing the output is only lowering the volume after the processing (I think).

Raising or lowing the input will effect the colour/saturation/compression what ever...

I'm sure Alex B programs are designed for -18 average with up to -6(VU) for the peaks. But I thought CSM had said that his are up to 0dbfs. So I always try to get the inputs level set here and then raise the input fader for more 'effect'.

I don't get any digital distortion as long as the output level is set to compensate the input gain.

Is this wrong? 8-)
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by yr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:12 pm

Changing the input in Nebula is simply changing the gain, you will get the same results using FreeG, for instance, if you use the same numbers.

As long as you are trying to achieve realistic distortion levels, there is no reason to go above 0 dBFS with this libraries. You could probably "get away" with doing so with the R2R library, because of the way it is padded. But as you can see from the pic in my previous post, you will get very strange results from the TB+ library using such hot levels.

If you are looking for more extreme distortion levels, you could chain a few instances of TB+ and make sure your peak levels are not going above 0 dBFS.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by faun2500 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:44 pm

Yeah, I get the input gain (I use UAD precision limiter for the metering).

I thought driving the input more (to a certain extent away) gives more tape compression and saturation.

I know tapebooster can get freaky when driven! :)
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by yr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Let's say you want to simulate an Otari machine (30ips quantegy 499) which is calibrated so that 0vu= -18dBFS. The 499 spec sheet shows 0.2% THD @ reference level (they don't specify which heads & speed were used for the measurements).

Using the OTR-30-499-0 preset followed by the TB96Med2 I get 0.16%THD for a -18dBFS test signal (pretty close to the specs). If you are "hitting" this combo with a 0dBFS signal you already get 8.5%THD.
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by faun2500 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:19 am

Ahh ok, So driving the input brings the noise floor up?
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Re: 0dbFS and r2r , crank the input?

Post by yr » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:42 am

faun2500 wrote:Ahh ok, So driving the input brings the noise floor up?
I think that the volterra test tone rejects noise, so there should be no negative effect in that sense. You just have to be careful not to overdo things if you are trying to get realistic tape saturation. Better use more moderate levels and a couple of TB+ in a chain if you want more extreme effect. You could also try compressing before R2R/TB+ on the master if you want more audible distortion.

Edit: a couple of sound samples to demonstrate this point:

1. Loop processed at 0dBFS with 1xTB (2dB):
0dBFS x 1TB (2dB).wav
(1.28 MiB) Downloaded 92 times
2. Loop processed at -6dBFS with 2xTB (2dB):
-6dBFS x 2TB (2dB).wav
(1.28 MiB) Downloaded 97 times
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