Transient loss

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babiuk
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Re: Transient loss

Post by babiuk » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:54 pm

musicgreator wrote:
Wow I just tested classic mode with 10 ms on clean, even and odd harmonics, arrows pointed at freqd (click on them) and its an incredible difference!! Doing this just with one preamp, in 44.1 Hz is like you're on stage with the singer... incredible. Prf went from 10% to 40% though (on my i5 760). And it introduces half a second latency
Hi, misterambient, I´ve been trying this choices (freqd, timed, split...)on a voice track with some preamps but I can't see a big or incredible difference, just traces indicating they are not the same files. Please could you let us know which preset you used? Or maybe drop a A/B comparison in order to listen to it?
I´d thank you a lot because I would like to get the best from nebula and I think I´m losing something.
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Re: Transient loss

Post by jrasia » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:30 pm

I think the improvement is much more noticeable on transients, or heavy bass material.
You likely won't notice much of change on one or two tracks, but try it on a mix bus and across multiple tracks. If you have the CPU power ;)

I found transients and the high end much more clear. Tighter bottom end, better stereo imaging.

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Re: Transient loss

Post by Definity » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:40 pm

I was poking around teh EVNS page and i noticed that i can play with attacktimes and releast time, dose this affect the compression attack and releas times or something else? Becuase for some reason when i up the attack speed and down the release speed it dosent change anything? anyone know why?

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Re: Transient loss

Post by misterambient » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:53 pm

babiuk wrote:
musicgreator wrote:
Wow I just tested classic mode with 10 ms on clean, even and odd harmonics, arrows pointed at freqd (click on them) and its an incredible difference!! Doing this just with one preamp, in 44.1 Hz is like you're on stage with the singer... incredible. Prf went from 10% to 40% though (on my i5 760). And it introduces half a second latency
Hi, misterambient, I´ve been trying this choices (freqd, timed, split...)on a voice track with some preamps but I can't see a big or incredible difference, just traces indicating they are not the same files. Please could you let us know which preset you used? Or maybe drop a A/B comparison in order to listen to it?
I´d thank you a lot because I would like to get the best from nebula and I think I´m losing something.
Hi babiuk, I used it on a complete track, std line in (AlexB preamp), 10 ms on all 3 options, arrows to freqd. When you are in classic mode, you see split. Sorry no soundexamples. The mix had more dept and more presence because of this tweak. I didn't use the evf envelope yet, going to try that tonight.

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Re: Transient loss

Post by david1103 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm

thanks everyone for all this experimenting!

i have read this whole thread, and while i think i understand the 10ms on clean kernal trick, i am not 100% sure i am doing it right as there is some conflicting information in this thread.

i (and i am sure others) would be very grateful if someone knowledgeable (cupwise?) could start a new thread with a little guide *with* screen shots as to what to do :) maybe it could be a sticky or get copied to a nebula newsletter?

questions i still have are:

- is it a good idea to go above 10ms on clean? (changing xml as explained earlier). anyone done tests?
- if the freqd is 50 and i turn the timed to 10, the freqd doesn't go down, its still 50... should i reduce it to 40?! have i just added 10ms? what is actually happening
- any dangers on making these mods on sound quality or potential artifacts?

i was thinking about modding the alexb blackmaster eq as its only 37.5ms kernals anyway, looking forward to checking this all out in a few days when i have time :)

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Re: Transient loss

Post by fpoitevin » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:25 pm

It's almost unbelievable that since the beginning of this thread, we can't get any precise and reliable information about these parameters from the developing team.... Is there a developer in the room ???? Does someone on Earth understand how it works enough to explain clearly to others ??? Is it a secret that the developers want to keep ???
Come on guys !

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Re: Transient loss

Post by Definity » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:35 pm

fpoitevin wrote:It's almost unbelievable that since the beginning of this thread, we can't get any precise and reliable information about these parameters from the developing team.... Is there a developer in the room ???? Does someone on Earth understand how it works enough to explain clearly to others ??? Is it a secret that the developers want to keep ???
Come on guys !
Yes very unbelivable, i still dont know how to sample a compressor and when i asked for a guide i just got back from G that he started writing one and it messed up so thats it no guide! i think if we want a decent one written then we will probaly have to do it ourselfs for a start manual writing is a start in itself it sounds easy but can be quite tricky. i would pay for a decent developers manual

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Re: Transient loss

Post by fpoitevin » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Yes, I understand that G is overbooked. I don't blame him at all. Thanks to him we have a great tool. But if he takes, let's say, two weeks to write a decent manual, I'm sure it won't be a problem for all of us if the next release is delayed of two weeks, even one month !!
More than a half of the posts in this forum are written because of the lack of information.

The dream would be a Nebula plugin with a UAD customer service...

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Re: Transient loss

Post by ericus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:48 pm

fpoitevin wrote:It's almost unbelievable that since the beginning of this thread, we can't get any precise and reliable information about these parameters from the developing team.... Is there a developer in the room ???? Does someone on Earth understand how it works enough to explain clearly to others ??? Is it a secret that the developers want to keep ???
Come on guys !
No secret or conspiration here...these words would be WAY too strong. I'll go a little off topic here but you'll see what I mean...


A couple of years ago, I tried to sit down with one of the coolest 3rd party guys to get a private NAT masterclass (I had some funds available and we're not talking about loose change here). After a lot of hesitations, he finally declined the offer, telling me that he felt uncomfortable, that NAT was there for everybody but that they were only so many classic consoles and preamps to be sampled, etc...Since it was done in a totally respectful way, I still respect this dev and I still buy his products. And, I have to mention that he did help me via email afterwards so he's got class. :mrgreen:


Just do the math...YOU sample a console and you have 1000 sales at around 30 bucks a pop (these numbers are fictionnal of course). Not too bad for a couple of weeks of work. Remember that some devs only sell the pres and no eqs so it cuts down drastically on sampling time.


So now I feel like this whole thing is "kept" secret or, nebulous, a bit on purpose. No drama, no conspiration...just maybe a cool little cash cow for some talented folks with access to classic gear and some "inside info"...if it were you, would you give your "secrets" away?


Just my 2 cents...please no flame war ok? I'm a VERY satisfied Nebula customer, I own almost all the 3rd party libs. And I love the pricing scheme, quite amazing indeed. I was maybe wrong in seeing this whole thing as some kind of "open-source" thingy...always been a big dreamer... ;)

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Re: Transient loss

Post by fpoitevin » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:10 pm

Very nice answer Ericus !
I didn't think about the problem this way...
OK, White flag !... :lol:

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Re: Transient loss

Post by dpclarkson » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:44 pm

Ericus, totally agree!
There are no secrets, in fact, just stumbled across another tip:

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... =viewtopic

This might also be useful for fast transients/compression, etc.
Going to test this as well.
If these guys wanted to make this whole engine 'top secret', they just
gave us a GUI with a couple of knobs to tweak and just the browser-window.

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Re: Transient loss

Post by ericus » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:21 am

dpclarkson wrote:Ericus, totally agree!
There are no secrets, in fact, just stumbled across another tip:

http://www.acustica-audio.com/forum/ind ... =viewtopic

This might also be useful for fast transients/compression, etc.
Going to test this as well.
If these guys wanted to make this whole engine 'top secret', they just
gave us a GUI with a couple of knobs to tweak and just the browser-window.
Well said! :mrgreen:

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Re: Transient loss

Post by Definity » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:45 am

I understand that G and other guys at Acustica are busy but making a program such as nebula and a sampling tool like NAT and not writing a decent manual to me defies the point of nebula and NAT being open to everyone to sample stuff especially if we dont know how! Not blaming G or E for this since they have given us an amazing tool but a decent in depth broken down to baby step and description guide would not go a miss and it would also secure even more decent program from more independant people to be released.

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Re: Transient loss

Post by musicgreator » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:14 pm

Am i assuming right, that SLITH mode needs less CPU than CLASSIC and plays the first part of the kernel with TIMED? And does TIMED have a maximal length of 30ms so it would cut off kernels that are longer than 30ms? Does the SPLITH mode with let's say 1ms of TIMED solve the transient loss issue, or how much TIMED is needed? I changed the TIMED thing from 10ms to 30ms in MAST page is that good?

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Re: Transient loss

Post by enriquesilveti » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:33 pm

The right way to do it is listening the real gear and tweaking Nebula.
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