OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

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giancarlo
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OUT!! Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:07 pm

What's wrong with the average delay plug-ins?

We found that they do not repeat well. Many of them are grainy and cut incoming audio sources to pieces. Ultimately they're good only for a kind of over-the-top 'special effect' that, however, makes it impossible to use them in normal contexts, when a high quality old-school hardware delay would effortlessly do the trick.

As soon as we realized that such a processor was missing in the software world, we felt the urgent need to find a solution. We are going to release a plug-in that not only includes the sonic nuances of 40 dream hardware delay units, but that is also capable of preserving the integrity of the source in such an organic way that was unheard of in-the-box until now.

If you are looking for a flashy delay effect with strong modulation, extreme pitch-shifting and heavy feedback, then Lemon is not for you; but for all the other vast majority of cases, when the music calls for a delay texture that blends seamlessly with the source, then Lemon might become your first and last choice.

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coming soon
price: unknown
release date: unknown
current state: alphatesting

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:10 pm

yes, we know there are a couple of emulations in nebula based on a sampled reverb approach, but really we cannot say they are really delays, due to their limitations (several fixed feedbacks and decays).

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Sheikyearbouti » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:28 pm

hahahahahahahaha :mrgreen: lol Enrique as a mad prof! Just priceless.

And yes, bring it on - can't wait to try it in a mix!
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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by keedie » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:24 pm

AA Crew, the Delorean preset is aces, I bet Lemon runs more like a Pagani :lol:. Is this a combination of Lexitide/Evencon devices?
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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by markgalup » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:17 pm

Can't wait for this AA - gonna be a homerun I'm sure.

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Avgatzeblouz » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:27 pm

Let me suggest, for the end of the 1st post :

instead of
coming soon
price: unknown
release date: unknown
current state: alphatesting
I suggest :

available now
price : priceless, so we'll accept donations
release date : read 2 lines above
current state : awesome.
Samplitude Pro X3 suite - Sequoia 14 / Windows 10 pro x64 / Pearl / Titanium / N4 / Pink / Pink compressors / Prime Comp+Mix+Curve + Caribou comp + Black Eq + Black comp / Sand / Lime / Acquamarine / Emerald / Ultramarine / Silk / Gold / Cobalt / Ebony / Ivory / BlueEQ / Lemon / Magenta / Azure

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by theheliosequence » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Can it not do modulation or just not anything extreme?

A lot of the boxes you've pictured have wonderful and unique modulation capabilities that are very important to the sound.
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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:27 pm

When you'll demo lemon you'll understand what you miss today, even using those boxes
At this point you'll decide if you want to buy it not
For the sake of knowledge, a lot of people told me the same before trying it
It's possibly the best tool we have ever created, it can really shape an organic delay effortlessly

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Sheikyearbouti » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:59 pm

We had a discussion with GC about modulation/pitch drifts and if such should be implemented, and from what I know, so he did with many other developers and artists. The conclusion was to not have this option - at least for now. Yes, they are important for the sound of the original boxes. Thing tho is that convolution cannot do pitch-shift. So this has to be implemented on algorithmic level. And it is where the sound was going from wow :o :shock: :D to lol :? :( . In other words - it starts sounding like a plug-in.

Frankly tho is it really so important to TRY to emulate the originals as close as possible (as some other do), or is the point to get something that today is missing in the box, and is super useful and sounds absolutely gorgeous? I personally supported the latter.

I heard the plug-in prior to our lecture together with GC at Dolby London a few weeks ago. Yes, on the big Atmos system... The sound is sooooo organic. You know, add it to a vocal or whatever, and listen to that space that is created. Like Ebony you can add tons of it without killing the mix. And the way different tracks start blending with each other when you share it on a send effect - who said you need a tool that does glue? This is just priceless. Really, wait for it and don't take my words for granted - hearing is believing!
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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:20 pm

It's difficult to explain
Delays are a virgin land. Nobody tried our tech there, so it's normal they don't know what to expect.
Lemon will be the only nebula/acqua delay plugin for a while
No other acqua plugins. No libraries. Nada of nada.
Now let's imagine we had our first equalizer this year and I introduced it following these lines:

Ok we have our first equalizer. We tried all equalizers on the market and they are not as much good as I expected (personal opinion, I'm biased).
So we have here our fist eq. If you are looking for deep saturation maybe this product is not for you, otherwise...

And someone replied:
Damn you are modeling a N**e, in those boxes saturation is very important!

Think a bit to it... Sometimes it is not a matter of doing everything. It's a matter of doing properly a subset
This time I'm rather curious about reactions. We have something new you cannot have in other ways, and by a mile. You cannot have lemon in other software. You cannot have lemon in hardware. You need exactly lemon

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by gussyg » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:02 pm

interesting.. AA jump into an area that's subjective... soundtoys do this really well
If there isn't an impressive array of pre-sets this thing won't take off (IMOP of course)
there needs to be a set of really creative start points to tickle the ears :shock:
you guys have been lacking in this area, and yes I guess why bother with comp/EQ settings they are not so creative, but a delay unit is just that
look forward to your offering :D

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:33 pm

Everything is subjective: eq, compressors, reverbs and obviously delays
In order to judge if soundtoys is good you need to compare those two products and judge the one you prefer the most.
We had a beta who told me clearly we are better, but this is not the point
There is simply a tech which was never used for a scope and now you have it.
I don't pretend you like the tech applied for this particular case but let me tell you something obvious: it is something new you never had before, and for this exact reason it is a milestone for the company and for the tech we represent.
At this point you'll judge if it is useful for you or not

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Dimzo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:48 pm

personally i'm very excited about this, can't wait to try it.
i always wanted to have a space echo with that typical organic texture but i don't want to maintain such a machine, i just don't have the time to do so.
it's difficult to describe but hearing a snare delayed through a roland space echo is like the delays are ticking on the rear side of my brain.
listen to the beginning of aural float - session 5 to get what i mean (hopefully.. :lol: )
when i use plugins or even other analog delays the sound is there but somehow it remains in front of me, it just doesn't have this dimensional thing going on.
so yeah, hopefully lemon can do this dimensional thingie..

now on the other side i'd also like to have extreme feedback like in the beginning of sensorama - echtzeit. the very first sound/athmo you're hearing is just the feedback turned up on a space echo... i'd love to be able to do this itb but to be honest i don't need such an effect in every track.
i just wish that lemon has a bit/enough feedback to do some cool stuff.

so wow it will be 40 units in one plug... but when? :mrgreen:

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by Max Caviar » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:14 pm

We hope to listen some audio samples soon !
Nebula3, Nebula4, Amethyst, Navy, PS Black eq, Sand, Lime, Coral, Pearl, Gold, Cobalt,
Ebony, Purple P-1, Ivory, Lemon

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Re: Lemon, the first "true" delay in nebula/acqua land

Post by giancarlo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:18 pm

agreed on every word, and it is exactly what I'm speaking about.

Lemon was delayed so much cause two big mistakes
- I thought there were good delays around for the exception of the ones I was using (just try to figure my surprise when I tried more products and I discovered many of them have the same issues)
- I thought our tech was not very important for a delay line, cause the low gain level.

Basically the second point is the main point. Really a delay is creating a LOUD texture in a lot of genres. The single repetition is maybe low, but NOT the texture created by a dense delay line. To be honest, the quality of dealy is MORE visible when feedback value is high, or when you have more delay lines. There is a point where quality of the delay is MORE important than the preamp you used for the track, or the compressor. Sometimes delay are LOUDER then reverbs. Compared to reverbs, good delays make a BIGGER difference.


about pitch shifting, modulations and crazy feedbacks effects: while they are VERY important for the recreation of a perfect copy, their quality is LESS important as soon as you have a stronger percentage of them in the preset. Basically, if you need a strong pitch shifting the quality of it is not so important any more, you don't care if it is aliased or not. Normally vocoders have a lot of artifacts. But as soon as the delay is closer to a texture the quality of it becomes extremely relevant. This is exactly where our tech is shining.


That's not all. We have several news this time. First of all, when you increase a preamp you don't have a "ringing effect" any more. It saturates, or even it breaks. This is very important because lemon is featuring also tapes (but PLEASE don't consider it our take on tapes, even if in your opinion they could be better then other tape libraries or even tape plugins from competition). Still it's not all. Our tapes are wow&flutter "fixed" (I don't know if you followed the cupwise discussion about wow&flutter and phase issues), so they are EXTREMELY good on phase, and more important, they can be MERGED with the dry signal, or the source signal, creating a new generation of effects. When you use them as delay units it's pure magic.
What's different from other convolution based delays? well, we have distortion! and not fake one, we have the sampled distortion. That's not all. We have 40 modeled units. On most of them we sampled full controls, for example if we had a 3000 we sampled the internal damping filter, the equalizer and so on. There is even an italian console among those emulations! and it is featuring the original internal magnetic delay, and you can morph between the console tone and the tape tone. So what we are doing is what you never tried.
Last point: you'll never have this tech in other forms for a bit of time, and we'll not create a different delay plugin. Just lemon. Lemon is our delay, period.

Final though, the tech was suggested by stefano/stedal and he provided even a couple of emulations. Maybe in the future we'll improve the tech of one of them, but it will require a bit of time. He is actively working on the user manual and contributed to the plugin in several ways.

Ah, really last point: the user manual is a titanic work.

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